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Old 04-09-2017, 02:35 AM   #121
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Make the distinction between a club / amateur level class and a pro class. Do you see Tiger Woods competing in an amateur golf tournament? ANY level of financial backing whether it's below market rates on items, cash incentives, free items etc in exchange for favourable comments about a particular brand or store is indicative of sponsorship, and in many other sports when such a relationship exists you are no longer able to run in the lower level races. Why is it any different for rc cars?
RC Cars is not Golf.
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:05 AM   #122
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Get rid of 21.5 and replace it with 25.5 and no more sponsored guys running 21.5
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:12 AM   #123
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RC Cars is not Golf.
Yeah but it all comes down to competition and skill levels. Motors or sponsorships unless it is fully funded won't make the difference, skill will and if you are fully funded your skill level is higher than most or you wouldn't be getting it. I had a friend that had a 300 dollar a month budget for RC this was 10 years ago, so he still got stuff I didn't , was he better... sometimes, sometimes not, was he sponsored technically no, but still had the good stuff. I like racing guys that are better than me and after my 6 year hiatus (for golf) from RC...most are, but I can still hold my own, and when I race more I get better. Fairly close skill levels make for good racing not necessarily equal motors, I think the premise is that, that equal motors is a good benchmark for somewhere to start. A newbie shouldn't start in mod, but a well skilled guy (not fully funded) racing VTA shouldn't be frowned on because he chooses to run that class, if you don't like being beat by him, get better and learn while having fun. RC IS a lot like golf it's not as easy as some make it look, and most of the time the guy with the better skills wins regardless of if he has the best/fastest stuff.
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:39 AM   #124
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Sure seems like the TC world was happier with way less worrying about who had what when there was only stock and mod. Electric touring car classes have become a absolute joke. I spent the time and money about 6 months or so ago and built a new Destiny TC with all good equipment, bought a few sets of tires, spares, electronics, 17.5 motor, bodies and so on and finally got a chance to go race it. When i got there there were now 12 guys running USGT and nobody left to run 17.5 whatsoever. Once again.. tires, 21.5, Cadillac body, and so on, went and dominated a class i was forced to run because it was the only class. Some of those guys were upset saying i had better motors and so on and i shouldn't be running a easier spec class. Sound familiar ?? So i got rid of all of that stuff and the same guys who complained are now getting together to formulate a plan to get more racers to the track. This is stupid and people wonder why so many people quit the hobby or go run offroad. So lets create 3 more tc classes so we can finally finish killing onroad in the states and find a new hobby. Is it really worth killing a hobby we all love just to make sure everyone gets a trophy ? Something needs to change
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:42 AM   #125
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There is a difference though between a 'well skilled guy' and a travelling billboard.
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:52 AM   #126
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There is a difference though between a 'well skilled guy' and a travelling billboard.
True, still doesn't affect whether or not it is fair to race him, billboard or not skill is skill.
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Old 04-09-2017, 07:39 AM   #127
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Who gives a crap about what others have/get. If they get it 50%,75% or free. Why should it matter to ANYONE else.

Go race, have fun and set goals for YOURSELF if you can't beat the others in said class. Go practice more, post less!

Ask questions from the faster guys. Learn about car set up, tire prep, body mounting and stop worrying about rotor strength and Resistance number of motors and battery.

Last week RacerMac73 came to our local track. Guess what he kicked our butt. But not one time did I say "man if he had not gotten that motor and battery, he wouldn't have beat me". But on the other side of that. I made changes on my car and played with tire prep. By the end of the day I had ran the same individual hot lap times as him and went a lap faster than I had ran previous. As a matter of fact I am fairly sure we had a lot of guys run personal best that day.

So don't bitch and complain (on the internet) when faster guys show up, they force everyone to step up and work a little harder. Ask questions and LISTEN you may just learn something. Don't sit in your chair and pout because that guys is "sponsored" and is a "walking billboard" that just shows the true jealousy you have of those guys. Remember most (not all) EARNED what they get.

After that race I went home and did something I had not done in 4 months.
I took my car down to bare chassis and went thru it. Because I got beat on skill, knowledge and better prep.....it wasn't because his motor or battery was better!!!


If you practice and learn car set up and tire prep, there is still no guarantee you are gonna win all the time. Remember there is some one out there that is better than you and willing to work just a little harder than you at EVERYTHING in life.
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Old 04-09-2017, 08:14 AM   #128
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This side of the sport is akin to colleges nowadays. Or worse yet youth soccer. Everyone needs a trophy or a f@@king safe room.

Suck it up Nancy. I get my ass kicked evrytime I race. So what take a beating and shut up and go home and figure out how to get better.

Rules don't need to change to satisfy the minority that whines. That's what is wrong with the sport. Giving in to the squeaky wheel.
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Old 04-09-2017, 08:36 AM   #129
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Well, this thread is now officially in La La Land.

Racermac73, what would have been cool is if you said fine, give me your motor, I'll put it in my car, and lets see what happens. If you do the same or better lap times with their motor, you crush their argument. And possibly their ego's.

Look, there is an issue with some spec motors being much hotter than the rest. There's also an issue with racers blaming equipment and not their skills. And there's an issue with the class structure in on road. It's the combination of all these things that starts all the arguments. And keeps RC Tech in business. There's no easy answer because everyone has a different opinion of what's wrong and how to fix it.
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Old 04-09-2017, 08:48 AM   #130
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There is a difference though between a 'well skilled guy' and a travelling billboard.
Other than the hats and shirts?
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Old 04-09-2017, 09:30 AM   #131
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Not all sponsored drivers are the fast ones. I was sponsored a few year back and I am no way an elite driver. I told them when I applied for the sponsorship I would not get them any podium finishes at big races, I would be lucky to make the e main. This is a well known motor company and the sponsored me because I try to promote the hobby, helped organize a club, and help new people. It was like being an ambassador for the hobby. They would send me parts to distribute when people had a problem with their product. So sponsorship doesn't always mean fast. Learn set up, correct driving lines, practice and have fun.
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Old 04-09-2017, 03:15 PM   #132
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It a natural fact that anytime guys run limited motor classes, it is always going to be important to have one of the best available "limited" motors. And the slower the class, the more critical it is to have one of the best "slow" motors. Sadly, that need always translates into cost because just as soon as you ante up for the latest and greatest motor of the month, some other company cones up with something more developed and therefore faster. This cycle never ends. The solution is to allow open motors so that anybody and everybody has access to more power than they can effectively handle. Then it becomes a game of talent and expertise rather than a test of wallet depth. The downside is that the rigid barriers of the typical US track are typically pretty hard on very fast cars driven poorly. So to avoid breaking our US cars, we limit the motors to try and slow the cars down......and then everybody inevitably grumbles about the need to have the very best available limited motor. Sadly, it is just not possible to have cake and also to eat cake. One other thing that I know for sure.....it costs me way less to run 13.5 or mod than to try and stay on top while running 17.5. In the faster classes, I can run the same motor for a year or two, while in stock I always seem to need to repower at least twice per season in order to remain competitive. The occasional a-arm or side link is far cheaper than 2 or 3 $100+ motors per season.
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Old 04-09-2017, 08:00 PM   #133
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It a natural fact that anytime guys run limited motor classes, it is always going to be important to have one of the best available "limited" motors. And the slower the class, the more critical it is to have one of the best "slow" motors. Sadly, that need always translates into cost because just as soon as you ante up for the latest and greatest motor of the month, some other company cones up with something more developed and therefore faster. This cycle never ends. The solution is to allow open motors so that anybody and everybody has access to more power than they can effectively handle. Then it becomes a game of talent and expertise rather than a test of wallet depth. The downside is that the rigid barriers of the typical US track are typically pretty hard on very fast cars driven poorly. So to avoid breaking our US cars, we limit the motors to try and slow the cars down......and then everybody inevitably grumbles about the need to have the very best available limited motor. Sadly, it is just not possible to have cake and also to eat cake. One other thing that I know for sure.....it costs me way less to run 13.5 or mod than to try and stay on top while running 17.5. In the faster classes, I can run the same motor for a year or two, while in stock I always seem to need to repower at least twice per season in order to remain competitive. The occasional a-arm or side link is far cheaper than 2 or 3 $100+ motors per season.
Thankyou, somebody understands what I was talking about. It IS important to have that better motor PROVIDED you have the SETUP and DRIVING SKILL to go with it. If somebody doesn't have deep pockets it puts them out of the running to be competitive and keep up with the guy who has the latest TSR or whatever motor. Setup your car and get it with running awesome corner speed and stability and play with your gearing all you want and then watch while you get passed on the straight because your XYZ motor just can't cut it. In 21.5 even more so is it crucial to have a good motor. You don't see anybody winning with an average motor. It's always R1 or TSR, Fantom etc. Criticize my point of view if you like but it's just what I have witnessed lately.
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Old 04-09-2017, 08:13 PM   #134
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I think for 21.5 (at least here) in order of importance it's

Driving (keep it clean)
Set Up
Chassis
Motor
Battery
ESC

Each play a significant part. But no good a top notch motor and clean driving in a TT-01, no use the best motor and chassis if you can't run a clean lap etc
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:08 AM   #135
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It a natural fact that anytime guys run limited motor classes, it is always going to be important to have one of the best available "limited" motors. And the slower the class, the more critical it is to have one of the best "slow" motors. Sadly, that need always translates into cost because just as soon as you ante up for the latest and greatest motor of the month, some other company cones up with something more developed and therefore faster. This cycle never ends. The solution is to allow open motors so that anybody and everybody has access to more power than they can effectively handle. Then it becomes a game of talent and expertise rather than a test of wallet depth. The downside is that the rigid barriers of the typical US track are typically pretty hard on very fast cars driven poorly. So to avoid breaking our US cars, we limit the motors to try and slow the cars down......and then everybody inevitably grumbles about the need to have the very best available limited motor. Sadly, it is just not possible to have cake and also to eat cake. One other thing that I know for sure.....it costs me way less to run 13.5 or mod than to try and stay on top while running 17.5. In the faster classes, I can run the same motor for a year or two, while in stock I always seem to need to repower at least twice per season in order to remain competitive. The occasional a-arm or side link is far cheaper than 2 or 3 $100+ motors per season.
But the bruised ego (that needs to be fixed) isn't...

All jokes asides - your analysis is spot-on. Additionnally, manufacturers are more than happy to periodically release newer high-$$$ motors that do provide a usable edge on the track, because, as mentionned earlier, a mod motor keeps you overpowered for at least 2 or 3 seasons... In the past, mod motors at least were dying because of comm diameters, and selling brushes was also bringing cash to the manufacturers... but today, if everyone ran mod, there'd be no revenue for the industry.
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