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Old 04-03-2017, 05:23 PM   #31
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USGT at the USVTA scale nationals this weekend will be a locked timing handout motor. We'll see how that works out.

2017 USVTA Scale Nationals April 8-9 - Windy City RC
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:36 PM   #32
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every since the new motors came out and started winning...threads like this are everywhere....but here is my question....

since I travel and mainly run VTA and USGT, I dont see anyone running the older motors other than those few sponsored drivers, and even some of them have permission to run the new hot motor till the company gets a new motor to compete. So why all the same fuss....95% or better is already onboard. They waited for the new motor, they pony up the 150 plus and they continued racing.

who here has been to a USGT race with more than 30, 40, or 60 cars and thought you lost cause of a motor?....none...cause you already have it. Ive been to these races and I didnt see any last gen motors...

TSR,Motiv,Trinity, Fantom, and others are all producing some of the best and fastest motors ever....and when ROAR steps in and makes a rule change, then we will have the same people complaining cause if it aint the motor, lord knows its the battery, or the chassis, or his sponsors....but its never the driver or setup
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:43 PM   #33
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It's never fair to BERT, he runs a tc4 in all classes, and the car&motor are not to blame..lol...
Ahahahah....Race on, and don't get mad when he passes your high $$$ chassis...
Practice + setup = wins.....
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:01 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by JRnotEwing View Post
USGT at the USVTA scale nationals this weekend will be a locked timing handout motor. We'll see how that works out.

2017 USVTA Scale Nationals April 8-9 - Windy City RC
I like this handout motor, only $40! Now I could live with a $40 being the only motor allowed in 21.5 racing! Nice. And I agree with most, 21.5 is almost as fast as 17.5. I run both and there is less of an edge on a 21.5 motor, but that makes it easier to drive a better line. I run within a half a lap to my 17.5 car. So if we went with a $40 motor with locked timing, maybe then there would be some separation with 17.5.
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:05 PM   #35
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Most seasons I would agree. Had the motors all been readily available all season and as durable as the last generation it would have been a non issue. But 3 month wait times on backorder while the motors were being sold direct at major events affected a whole seasons races. Also, the durability of the new motors is not the same. I raced my last "The One" for 2 years. I have 3 paperweights that were the latest before the stator moved. So I, for one feel I lost a couple to motors when I went back on the waiting list.
Not saying I'm against the cost. I've ponied up and will do again. I'm against the lack of availability to every racer.





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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
every since the new motors came out and started winning...threads like this are everywhere....but here is my question....

since I travel and mainly run VTA and USGT, I dont see anyone running the older motors other than those few sponsored drivers, and even some of them have permission to run the new hot motor till the company gets a new motor to compete. So why all the same fuss....95% or better is already onboard. They waited for the new motor, they pony up the 150 plus and they continued racing.

who here has been to a USGT race with more than 30, 40, or 60 cars and thought you lost cause of a motor?....none...cause you already have it. Ive been to these races and I didnt see any last gen motors...

TSR,Motiv,Trinity, Fantom, and others are all producing some of the best and fastest motors ever....and when ROAR steps in and makes a rule change, then we will have the same people complaining cause if it aint the motor, lord knows its the battery, or the chassis, or his sponsors....but its never the driver or setup
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:08 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
every since the new motors came out and started winning...threads like this are everywhere....but here is my question....

since I travel and mainly run VTA and USGT, I dont see anyone running the older motors other than those few sponsored drivers, and even some of them have permission to run the new hot motor till the company gets a new motor to compete. So why all the same fuss....95% or better is already onboard. They waited for the new motor, they pony up the 150 plus and they continued racing.

who here has been to a USGT race with more than 30, 40, or 60 cars and thought you lost cause of a motor?....none...cause you already have it. Ive been to these races and I didnt see any last gen motors...

TSR,Motiv,Trinity, Fantom, and others are all producing some of the best and fastest motors ever....and when ROAR steps in and makes a rule change, then we will have the same people complaining cause if it aint the motor, lord knows its the battery, or the chassis, or his sponsors....but its never the driver or setup
Ton of truth there. No matter what it will always sumthing.

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Old 04-03-2017, 10:38 PM   #37
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Ok forgive me here but I am going to go on a bit of a rant....

The problem, to me is corporate greed, sponsorship whatever you want to call it. Used to be a time when racing you had 3 or 4 tiers you had your 540 (Silver Can) where your older (as in age), or newer to racing types stayed, Stock (27t brushed) which encompassed your average racer, occasionally some may get special deals from a store or something but mostly self funded, and your elite class, modified, what most of the hardcore aspired to, where the sponsored drivers lived, you were racing the best of the best here.

But then something happened, whether it snuck in with brushless or lipos, I don't know, but stores started looking for new revenue streams come the GFC etc, so you had drivers in the lower tiers being 'sponsored' or supported, or whatever corporate spin you want to put on it. They rocked up wearing a company / store's shirt, got a better deal on gear than the average joe could hope for, and in turn became a walking talking bilboard shamelessly pushing brand x or store y at every opportunity. Ie, I saw a driver thank "AKA Tyres" at an On road event, now last I checked, AKA don't make onroad tyres.

I think the problem is this level of sponsored drivers in the controlled classes If you're good enough to be sponsored, supported, whatever you want to call it, get your a.. into mod. The spec Classes are the realm of the average joe, not the driver who appears on the R1 website as a team driver, or who has umpteen stores / brands on his rctech signature, or has all the team merch at every meeting and should they get a podium, take a seat because they got a lot of people to thank them. Sponsorship for toy cars is comical enough to me, for it to be in the "spec" classes? Come on. A sponsored driver in a stock or sportsman race is like throwing Lewis Hamilton in your local car club hill climb event, it's not a fair fight.

Now, what bloody hope does the average sportsman driver have against that? Do I even for a second think I have a hope in hell of being competitive against a supported driver? No! But I'm a stubborn old fart who will throw his car out there anyway but I can see why a number of my peers have decided against it, ritual humiliation isn't fun.

When you have supported drivers in spec classes of toy cars something is seriously wrong.

HOw do we fix it? The regulatory needs to grow a pair. We need to (As Donald Trump said) drain the swamp.

How?

1. No conflict of interest at executive level positions in regulatory bodies or clubs. If driver A is on the committee of club B, and is sponsored or supported by brand C, then ANY decision that involves that brand, they must excuse themselves from.

2. Limit sponsorship, if you're good enough to be sponsored / supported, then race mod, letting team drivers run rampant in spec classes to pad their trophy case against the average fleet of weekend hacks is killing us.

3. Be clear on what sponsorship is. It's not necessarily having everything paid for. Do you get a better deal than what the average person does? Are you on a companies website as a team driver? Do you advertise for them by way of your signature, who you thank etc

4. Stop trying to mask the issue by suggesting such draconian controls like spec motors, people like to pick and choose, some of us like the whole motor tuning thing, and motor A being slightly quicker than motor B isn't what's hurting us right now. It's letting your proverbial Michael Jordan play ball against a bunch of average Lavar Balls.

Fix these elements up and yes you will annoy a few people initially, I fully expect to have the usual people attack me personally on this post, heaven forbid I have the audacity to present an honest opinion based on my experience in the hobby. Fix this and you go a long way to making 21.5 racing fair, because it brings it back to the average weekend warriors who are self funded partaking in what is meant to be a fun hobby. We won't make it fair by squeezing it with more and more controls if we continue to let drivers who should be racing with the big boys, inflate their egos by winning an event against us mere mortals then subjecting us to a long winded acceptance speech thanking their sponsors.
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Old 04-03-2017, 10:57 PM   #38
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nope not going to attack

Driver ego doesn't help, Mod is hard and not everyone wants to put in the hard yards to get good at it, I think I spent the last 3 yeas in 13.5 and have just made the move back up now, I expect ill spend the next few months at the back of the mod pack before I make any progress, but I am realistic.
Everyone wants instant gratification and it to be easy, but at the pointy end of all classes it isn't, even if you are sponsored.


the other factor is life isn't fair...
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:01 PM   #39
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I've tried 13.5, and I can usually hang on for a few laps, but my reflexes aren't what they were I have a bit of trouble following the car at that pace, and the inevitable crash gets costly. It's why I also abandoned 1/8E and 1/8 GTE in favour of a more sedate F1 17.5 thing. But it's discouraging when people who clearly are better drivers, have the company / store support network, with the back up behind them, sit in these spec classes creating a bottleneck for those below, which gets discouraging and alienates them. That causes more of an issue than motor A being slightly quicker than motor B.
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:59 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
every since the new motors came out and started winning...threads like this are everywhere....but here is my question....

since I travel and mainly run VTA and USGT, I dont see anyone running the older motors other than those few sponsored drivers, and even some of them have permission to run the new hot motor till the company gets a new motor to compete. So why all the same fuss....95% or better is already onboard. They waited for the new motor, they pony up the 150 plus and they continued racing.

who here has been to a USGT race with more than 30, 40, or 60 cars and thought you lost cause of a motor?....none...cause you already have it. Ive been to these races and I didnt see any last gen motors...

TSR,Motiv,Trinity, Fantom, and others are all producing some of the best and fastest motors ever....and when ROAR steps in and makes a rule change, then we will have the same people complaining cause if it aint the motor, lord knows its the battery, or the chassis, or his sponsors....but its never the driver or setup
You're forgetting the guys who aren't showing up to these big races because they couldn't get one of the hot motors (either availability or lack of funds) or just didn't bother because they're jaded. There's some confirmation bias if you're only polling the drivers who show up to the big races.
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Old 04-04-2017, 12:38 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
I've tried 13.5, and I can usually hang on for a few laps, but my reflexes aren't what they were I have a bit of trouble following the car at that pace, and the inevitable crash gets costly. It's why I also abandoned 1/8E and 1/8 GTE in favour of a more sedate F1 17.5 thing. But it's discouraging when people who clearly are better drivers, have the company / store support network, with the back up behind them, sit in these spec classes creating a bottleneck for those below, which gets discouraging and alienates them. That causes more of an issue than motor A being slightly quicker than motor B.
I hear you, my reflexes(& eyesight) aren't what they used to be either that definitely plays a role in why I tend to run more spec classes in general. I did run more mod about 15 years ago, but it's gotten harder & harder for me to control the power anymore(not to mention how much MORE power today's motors make), but 17.5's & 21.5's are just about right for me, so that's what I stick to for the most part....
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Old 04-04-2017, 07:13 AM   #42
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Nevertheless stock classes are never fair.

This. Period. Run mod, or if this is really too fast (and I admit it's crazy fast...), run boosted 13.5 or 10.5, both close to what mod used to be a decade or so ago which means there isn't a crazy gap coming from hardware between competitors, because with this level of wattage already, the fingers make the difference rather than the motor/battery combo. Or run mod, and baby the car, you will still win over the guy who punches it like crazy and hits a board every couple of laps.
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Old 04-04-2017, 07:54 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
every since the new motors came out and started winning...threads like this are everywhere....but here is my question....

since I travel and mainly run VTA and USGT, I dont see anyone running the older motors other than those few sponsored drivers, and even some of them have permission to run the new hot motor till the company gets a new motor to compete. So why all the same fuss....95% or better is already onboard. They waited for the new motor, they pony up the 150 plus and they continued racing.

who here has been to a USGT race with more than 30, 40, or 60 cars and thought you lost cause of a motor?....none...cause you already have it. Ive been to these races and I didnt see any last gen motors...

TSR,Motiv,Trinity, Fantom, and others are all producing some of the best and fastest motors ever....and when ROAR steps in and makes a rule change, then we will have the same people complaining cause if it aint the motor, lord knows its the battery, or the chassis, or his sponsors....but its never the driver or setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
You're forgetting the guys who aren't showing up to these big races because they couldn't get one of the hot motors (either availability or lack of funds) or just didn't bother because they're jaded. There's some confirmation bias if you're only polling the drivers who show up to the big races.
And those are the two sides to this equation. You will always have racers that will step up and go with the new motors, and those who don't for whatever reason. Why would you travel to a race if you know you're going to be down on power? And this season 17.5 has gotten to a point where it's too fast, and people are dropping down to USGT. So now you have high skill racers in a medium skill class.

How many people remember that the reason for different classes was to separate drivers based on skill level? Not everyone is going to compete on the major league level, and some people don't have the time or resources to try and improve their skills. USVTA was started to have a place for older TC chassis to compete without the "gotta have the best" attitude. Now you have guys with brand new cars, brand new motors, brand new batteries, and 40 amp chargers racing VTA. And the guy who just wants to go out and have fun is like "what the heck?"

There's no easy answer because we all have different opinions on how to handle this. Stronger motor rules are a big step in the right direction, but we need more than that.

And the first person who says stock was never meant to be based on skill level gets slammed into the boards!
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:38 AM   #44
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so a sponsored driver should NOT be in "spec" classes?...ok

so the advantage is he/she gets "stuff" for a discount and that makes it unfair?

and they are ruin the classes for the average joe?

lets use me for an example...

Im sponsored by AE/Reedy/PF....I get sponsored items at discount. Am I a Mod or even 17.5 TC guy?...NO....I dont like TC, never have never will. Can I run those classes?...Yes. Will I do well?...depends?...but do I want to?...Hell Nah. No fun for me. Sponsored or not, Im a VTA and GT guy, its what got me into onroad and its what KEEPS me here. Im not the best, of the best....do I do well, at times?...yes....Is that cause I got some "special CN juice" in my pit bag from my sponsors...nope. Its cause Im a average racer that gets a discount from companys that trust and believe in me to represent the product that they sale.

Now on the flip side of anyone that thinks a guy is fast cause of sponsorship is an idiot. Most of us have $$$$$ to start with and to be honest, I can buy more wins if I wasnt sponsored. Cause us sponsored guys are limited, where you average Joe can buy whatever is hot/fast of the week/month...incl chassis,motors,esc,radios,lipos, even servo...hell you can change and use whatever combo of fast you choose....get you a $800 Awsome chassis, $200 Matrix motor, $700 Super M13 SE radio, $300 PRL esc, $150 Zeus lipo, and $100 Bitech servo....and nobody will care.

sponsored drivers in spec classes need to move to mod?...lol
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:44 AM   #45
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bottomline....

take away sponsored spec racers, take away guys with deep pockets...same thing, he just didnt get the free t-shirt
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