RWD, 4 Wheel Independent Susp. Onroad Cards - Why Not?, Why?, How?
#107
But my original post was just meant to ponder possibilities for the sake of realism, I guess. I think it all comes down to a balance between "scale realism" and "fast and easy to drive".
Put philosophically, if all we are concerned about is "fast and easy to drive", then why do we put headlight stickers on our shell, or clear windows? I think it's for some realism. So, rwd fully independent suspension is just another (although more difficult) step towards realism.
Or, someone needs to make Tesla bodyshells - then electric powered all wheel drive will match the shell.
#108
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I understand that the fastest and easiest to drive 1/10 scale car will probably be 4wd. And if fast and easy to drive is the only criteria, then case closed.
But my original post was just meant to ponder possibilities for the sake of realism, I guess. I think it all comes down to a balance between "scale realism" and "fast and easy to drive".
Put philosophically, if all we are concerned about is "fast and easy to drive", then why do we put headlight stickers on our shell, or clear windows? I think it's for some realism. So, rwd fully independent suspension is just another (although more difficult) step towards realism.
Or, someone needs to make Tesla bodyshells - then electric powered all wheel drive will match the shell.
But my original post was just meant to ponder possibilities for the sake of realism, I guess. I think it all comes down to a balance between "scale realism" and "fast and easy to drive".
Put philosophically, if all we are concerned about is "fast and easy to drive", then why do we put headlight stickers on our shell, or clear windows? I think it's for some realism. So, rwd fully independent suspension is just another (although more difficult) step towards realism.
Or, someone needs to make Tesla bodyshells - then electric powered all wheel drive will match the shell.
If price is right on the Yokomo, I'll buy it. Another got another person curious. If it works then maybe can get few more. Create our own local class for it.
#110
Tech Regular
From grip point of view, live axle don't have any real advatage over IRS.
CoG part of yout argument might make sense - but difference wil be minimal, as most of weight is in electronics, which are located very similarly in both chassis
Only advantage of pan car styled chassis is direct drive, with its low friction and low weight, it can work better on fast, high grip tracks. But on low grip, technical tracks, IRS will work better.
So we've come to why RWD touring class won't happen..
People who race AWD don't want RWD, because it'd be too challenging to drive.
People who race RWD with live axle don't want lose simplicity of their chassis.
Both groups will find reasons why it can't work and won't even try.
Those few, who want to try something new are not enough to start new class... FWD has some fans and few manufacturers do competitive class chassis - still, it's almost dead...
Last edited by Papi; 03-09-2017 at 01:51 AM.
#111
Regional Moderator
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Xpress K1 and M1 both have 4 wheel independent suspension and rear wheel drive.
Xpresso M1 1/10 Mini MR 2WD M Chassis Kit #XP-90002 - Car Kit
Xpresso M1 1/10 Mini MR 2WD M Chassis Kit #XP-90002 - Car Kit
#112
Tech Regular
iTrader: (16)
You've been given plenty of reasons why it won't work (or is unlikely to work), and you've also been given plenty of examples of people's own experience of a RWD rubber-tyre cars not working.
But I don't think there is any negativity here.
We would all agree that the hobby is about enjoyment. If you will get enjoyment from building a RWD rubber-tyre car - then do it!
But I don't think there is any negativity here.
We would all agree that the hobby is about enjoyment. If you will get enjoyment from building a RWD rubber-tyre car - then do it!
#114
Tech Elite
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On that yokomo - my kids run my old DTM cars at some club races. I think it actually teaches them bad habits. If that yok is priced properly and isn't TOO much of a handful to drive, I will buy them this very car. I like the concept a lot. Plus, less weight when they bang the boards means less breakage
#115
Could be interesting, if the price is reasonable... Here in Switzerland, it is available for pre-order for 299CHF... ouch.
#116
My first RWD touring car (the Porsche shown above) was initially [B]configured with a TA-06 one-way pulley installed backwards on the front gearbox, to allow four-wheel braking instead of freewheeling. The braking was significantly improved as you'd expect, and it no longer suffered from snap-oversteer when braking, but the acceleration was still terrible and the handling was very squirrelly when applying any power at all. It also shredded the Vaterra 31mm rear tires I used in no time. It's possible those HPI tires would help (I think they have them as wide as 34mm?), but ONLY if they're made out of a properly-sticky compound -- S-compound isn't good enough, and D- and M-compounds are a complete waste of time. Pro compound is the only thing that will come close to offering enough traction with only two drive wheels.
#117
Tech Elite
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I'm not kidding. I suspect there are some ~reasons~ for this.
4wd covers up a lot of sins. Including that of "lacking weight transfer". Touring cars, seem to be set up extremely stiffly, and expect chassis flex and a spool up front to do a lot of the work for them.
While this does simplify tuning, it is a very different philosophy from how ~real cars~ do it. (There's a succesfull racer or two at my local track who've told the stiff chassis theroy to pound sand, and are running soft springs on a very, very stiff chassis.)
I expect that softer springs, and a stiff chassis would lead to a reasonable to drive car...
4wd covers up a lot of sins. Including that of "lacking weight transfer". Touring cars, seem to be set up extremely stiffly, and expect chassis flex and a spool up front to do a lot of the work for them.
While this does simplify tuning, it is a very different philosophy from how ~real cars~ do it. (There's a succesfull racer or two at my local track who've told the stiff chassis theroy to pound sand, and are running soft springs on a very, very stiff chassis.)
I expect that softer springs, and a stiff chassis would lead to a reasonable to drive car...
#118
Tech Elite
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I'm hoping you put "lacking weight transfer" in quotes to point out the seemingly popular yet incorrect assumption that stiff chassis and springs don't transfer weight. Of course, weight transfer occurs with the same total for a given car at a given lateral acceleration regardless of spring stiffness; the springs (and dampers) just allow us to change the proportioning of weight transfer between ends of the car during cornering.
#120