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Old 03-01-2017, 05:34 AM   #61
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Well, somebody had a Tamiya TA-06 for sale here on rctech for a very good price, so I just bought it so I can prove to many of you how right you may be.

It should be fairly easy to switch it between 4WD and RWD. I suppose I could just remove the rear dogbones to make it FWD, unless there is a quicker way.

I'm happy. I will soon have something to tinker around with.
I actually ran my TA06 as rwd in USGT for a few weeks last year. I removed the front dogbones and the belts. It was a challenge, but it was fun. It really frees up the driveline. Of course, I'm also the nut that changed an M03 to rwd because I hated fwd.
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Old 03-01-2017, 05:50 AM   #62
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My standard of "clean and flat pavement" is probably pretty low. I'm talking no holes and no large pebbles. F1 doesn't have the clearance for any of that.
Holes no. Pebbles, we try but they still end up on track. 3 of us got belts damaged last time out. We sweep it and blow it clear. But tree branchs are above it. Stuff still ends up on it.
I would really like to try running a carpet track. But just can't seem to get there without taking off work. Schedule just doesn't mix.
It's possible that with the rising popularity of solid axle trucks, Yeti, Score trophy, Baja Rey, that a brand could take chance with a solid axle road car. Or even one could be locked away in a companies vault of unreleased vehicles.
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Old 03-01-2017, 05:04 PM   #63
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A solid-rear-axle "muscle car" would be pretty cool, for scale accuracy anyway. I've thought about how to build one in the past, but crawler axles are always too bulky.
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Old 03-01-2017, 05:10 PM   #64
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Sedan bodies already have more downforce than 1/10 F1s - have you noticed that huge wing in the rear?

You are still talking about RWD as it was doing nothing but donuts - interesting, I have different experiences with RWD - only time I experienced something you're describing, was on wooden floor

You just need different driving style from AWD or FWD - throttle has larger part in handling than in other two, making car more sensitive.

Ofcourse RWD is going to have trouble putting power of 500W+ motor to ground, but if we are talking about 17,5 or 21,5T classes, there is no problems with driveability even for solid axle cars.

With independend suspension, RWD could be very close to AWD. With more efficient drive, they could even beat them in some conditions (carpet races). But for sure, it'd be fun to have one class for both FWD and RWD cars with full independent suspension, to compare how they perform. Problem is that no manufacturer tried to make even hobby-class RWD with full independent suspension.
I couldn't get it to stick to the ground properly using a 27-turn silver-can motor and HPI pro-compound tires. Touring car tires are just too bloody small.

1:10-scale touring cars definitely don't have more downforce than F1 cars at the same speed. (1:8-scale GT cars with doorstop-shaped bodies have more downforce than F1 cars, but I was under the impression we were talking about touring cars that actually look like real cars.) Sure, the wing on the back of a touring car generates downforce, but most of that downforce just counteracts the lift generated by the rear windshield. F1 cars have body shells sculpted to generate downforce instead of lift, and they have minimal parachute-effect since there's almost no open space under the body shell, so the front and rear wings on F1 cars add to the total downforce instead of counteracting lift from the body.
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:43 PM   #65
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I couldn't get it to stick to the ground properly using a 27-turn silver-can motor and HPI pro-compound tires. Touring car tires are just too bloody small.
Interesting, i had no problems to drive my car on gravel with 15,5 BL On tarmac I could slam full throttle anytime without spinning.. I was using old Corally racing tires or old, worn rally tires.

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1:10-scale touring cars definitely don't have more downforce than F1 cars at the same speed.

F1 cars have body shells sculpted to generate downforce instead of lift, and they have minimal parachute-effect since there's almost no open space under the body shell, so the front and rear wings on F1 cars add to the total downforce instead of counteracting lift from the body.
F1 cars have scaled version of real F1 body. That's problem, as you said, physics don't scale lineary... Wings on RC F1s are mostly for effect.
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Old 03-02-2017, 05:57 AM   #66
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1:10-scale touring cars definitely don't have more downforce than F1 cars at the same speed
I'd love to see the data to back up that statement. I'm an F1/Indy junkie but I just don't believe that is true.
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Old 03-02-2017, 08:18 AM   #67
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F1 r/c car wings are often multi-plane. And air doesn't scale down well. Holes much smaller than an inch, act more like walls than they do entrances to a biplane wing.

I would not be suprised if a touring car body made more downforce than a F1 setup.



This thread seems to be justifying a "slower, more scale" race class. Smaller motors, heavier weight, closer to scale tire compounds...
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Old 03-02-2017, 09:12 AM   #68
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The world of RC onroad cars is basically:
- 4wd independent suspension touring cars, or
- 2wd solid read axle pan cars, F1 cards
....
Why the mismatch? Shouldn't there be more RC cars that are laid out similar to full size race cars?

....
Shouldn't there be a RWD touring car chassis? Wouldn't that be cool for USVTA? Power slide around the corners in your '71 Cuda?

....

Thoughts?
I think it is a practical compromise to allow 4wd on any RC on road just because of the braking. RWD braking is just evil and very un-scale.

The mismatch exists in pan-cars/F1 because they are a development of slot car racing. And touring cars are simply developed from buggies (see Tamiya TA01).

That said, once carpet racing disappeared locally I bought an FGX F1 car. Fully independent pushrod suspension all around and RWD. This has been done before with less success, look up the Tamiya F201, it's 4wd and IFS/IRS all around.

Recently, I've come to realize that having the motor in the same position as the real car is the more scale thing. To that end my VTA body was a DeTomaso Pantera, because exactly how many muscle cars are mid-engine?!

Also I'm putting a Porsche 911 GT2 shell on a M06 for rear-engine sake!
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Old 03-02-2017, 11:37 AM   #69
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I had never considered that pan cars might be an offshoot of slot cars. Are they really? Slot cars (even today) are frequently bevel drive, and not "sidewinder" like pan cars are.

I"m so deep in pipe dream territory though. I want "real brakes" and "realistic power fractions" and "realistic weights" and "realistic rubber compounds". It would be slow, there would be lots of sliding. And I suspect we'd see most tracks have multiple "decent" lines to drive.
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Old 03-02-2017, 01:23 PM   #70
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I had never considered that pan cars might be an offshoot of slot cars. Are they really? Slot cars (even today) are frequently bevel drive, and not "sidewinder" like pan cars are.

I"m so deep in pipe dream territory though. I want "real brakes" and "realistic power fractions" and "realistic weights" and "realistic rubber compounds". It would be slow, there would be lots of sliding. And I suspect we'd see most tracks have multiple "decent" lines to drive.
There would be multiple lines if the tracks continued to be unrealistic. But it you want to be truly realistic, tracks would need to be about three feet wide.
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Old 03-02-2017, 02:44 PM   #71
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Some tracks are very wide. :-) Indy, Road America, etc.. Some.. notsomuch.
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Old 03-02-2017, 04:48 PM   #72
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I'd love to see brakes on a RWD car. But I can't think of a reasonable braking system that would work with 1/10 scale cars.
Got your front brakes right here..........
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Old 03-02-2017, 06:29 PM   #73
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This thread seems to be justifying a "slower, more scale" race class. Smaller motors, heavier weight, closer to scale tire compounds...
Well, the question arose because 1:1 cars are typically RWD, but there aren't scale equivalents. With that premise, it's almost inevitable that the discussion would go that way.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:08 AM   #74
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Got your front brakes right here..........
Band brake, didn't think of it... Excellent idea, it could be even hidden inside of front hub from 4WD, to get rid of front shafts.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:32 AM   #75
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I want to know much more about that car.
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