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Old 03-15-2017, 12:05 PM   #151
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I don't disagree. I was basically just reporting what the weight of the removed components was. Most of that weight (not surprisingly) was the front diff.

I suppose lightweight electronics would help a bit, but not 30%. A 1 cell battery pack would help a bunch. Then weight distribution stuff like putting the motor behind the rear axle, etc. but that is beyond my capabilities.
I think that weight distribution will be OK. If you want more weight on rear axle, you could do it with short battery moved rearwards. That would also help with weight reduction.

Also, maybe you can reduce weight a little by converting front to standard shocks
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:25 PM   #152
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I like how the inboard shocks move the weight of the shocks back towards the rear. I know the longer shafts and linkages add weight, but at least the center of gravity of the front shock assemblies is an inch or two towards the rear (compared to upright shocks and shock tower).

Thanks.
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Old 03-16-2017, 08:33 AM   #153
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I think 62g isn't enough to really swing this around. We'd need to be talking like a 30% weight reduction. Enough to cover up for lap time inconsistancy.

Hmmpf.
For that you'd probably have to switch to aluminum hardware all around -- aluminum screws, aluminum diff outdrives, aluminum CVDs, aluminum turnbuckles, etc. And stick with plastic for everything that doesn't absolutely need to be made of metal.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:40 AM   #154
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Many modern "off road" tracks are so high grip now that we effectively already know how a 2wd car can handle and brake and they do it just fine. They are typically slower than the 4wd's though. It would be a mistake to think that you are going to do an independent suspension 2wd on road car but then somehow keep up with the 4wd cars. That's not going to happen and just because it won't doesn't mean they wouldn't be fun to drive. So many people get caught up in thinking that something isn't fun if it isn't as fast as possible. I feel the opposite way. I believe that many rc classes aren't fun at all anymore because they are too fast.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:28 AM   #155
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I would love to see a "slow" class, where throttle control and braking were the keys to fast lap times....
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:07 AM   #156
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You'll never see that on large tracks with wide lanes. Many people today don't really want throttle control or braking to be big factors. What they want is slot car like performance without the slots.
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:33 AM   #157
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Let me clarify and say I am NOT against independent suspension. I'm only saying that the way touring cars implement it with their skinny tires and identical width front and rear tracks is weak.

I would be all for a 1/10 scale electric version of a 1/8 scale nitro car like this. It would be awesome in either 4WD or RWD versions.

That already exists look up Serpent 748-e Natrix

And those 235mm IC cars died out, as they went from being an entry into 1:8 IC to a class of motor / tires wars, just like Pro-10 in the 90s did.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:16 PM   #158
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You'll never see that on large tracks with wide lanes. Many people today don't really want throttle control or braking to be big factors. What they want is slot car like performance without the slots.
As I've noticed. "hey, this new CRC black carpet is super sticky".

The whole thing I see people doing is trying how to figure out how to NOT traction roll.

.... If you have that much traction, ~something~ is wrong with your racing formula.

Limiting traction. Severely. And I do mean severely, would make batteries, motors, and even most aero a non-issue. Throw in "a" battery. Throw in "A" motor. Everyone would have enough power to wheelspin the whole back straight. Throttle control, steering, suspension setup... Even ESC programming would start to matter again.

Remember when current limiters on ESCs were magic? You could set a 40-50-80amp limit on your 410s and not have issues with breaking the rear end loose in corners...

That would become necessary again.

Making that fast, clean, lap, would be a challenge, every lap.

.... These would not be long races.
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Old 03-17-2017, 01:14 PM   #159
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I would love to see a "slow" class, where throttle control and braking were the keys to fast lap times....
As said - those thinking this are in a minority. people don't want a learning curve and they don't want to feel like THEY are the one to blame for lame performance - as opposed to the car.

this is why people keep running stock, too... because in mod it's darn obvious than the fingers are the limiting factor. In Stock, much easier to blame the 0.5W the other guy has because his wallet is deeper.

However, you don't want to drive sthing that feels like a true POS either... it still has to be fun somehow
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:32 PM   #160
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My favorite on-road memories are of racing Tamiya Minis: slow, 2wd. I guess there is something to that formula.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:34 PM   #161
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I would love to see a "slow" class, where throttle control and braking were the keys to fast lap times....
Been running a " for fun " 1/18 for 3 years. It's really suprising how much you don't notice the lack of speed if the layout is the right size.
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:47 PM   #162
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So many people get caught up in thinking that something isn't fun if it isn't as fast as possible. I feel the opposite way. I believe that many rc classes aren't fun at all anymore because they are too fast.
I'm not so sure it's the drivers' conscious decisions that are to blame for this. Rather, as we advance in the hobby and our skills improve, handling a car at moderate speeds becomes so practiced that we stop noticing we're doing it anymore. Then, from the perspective of our conscious minds, RCing becomes a spectator sport -- we simply decide where the car should go and then watch as our reflexes make it happen automatically. We didn't get into RC to watch things happen, we got into RC to *make* things happen. So as our skills advance, it becomes necessary to make the activity more engaging, and the easiest way to do that is to increase the speed. Making the vehicle harder to drive is another way to make the activity more engaging, but it also makes the activity more frustrating -- rather than familiar challenges happening faster and testing our learned skills, unfamiliar challenges are happening that interfere with our learned skills. When trying a new class of vehicle that can be fun, but when it's the same class of vehicle it's more likely to be tedious instead, because we expect to already be good at it.

When I first started RCing I was seriously intimidated by the speed of my HPI Savage XS (about 35mph), and I was convinced I didn't want a touring car that went even faster and with less ground clearance that would be knocked around by pebbles on the street. Nowadays a third of my collection is touring cars, almost all of which go as fast or faster than that Savage XS (the exceptions being rally cars which can't handle that much speed off-road anyway), and it doesn't faze me at all. Part of that is because my touring cars are tuned for my driving style and expectations, and have an inherently more stable design than that Savage XS, but part of it is also that I have 3 years more experience driving RCs at high speed. I can enter a 90-degree corner with curbs on all sides at 35mph, well below the top speed of the car, and slide very neatly around the corner without clipping the curb, over and over. If I raced on a regular basis I might very well be bored with doing that by now, and I'd probably be seeking higher speeds to keep my reflexes sharp. In fact, one of the biggest reasons I don't race is because I don't want to get so good at driving RCs that I get bored with it -- I've seen what people do to their RCs when they get bored with the hobby, crazy jumps at skate parks and whatnot, and I don't want to reach the point where I'm *trying* to break my toys just to keep myself entertained.

</philosophizing>
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:29 PM   #163
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Been running a " for fun " 1/18 for 3 years. It's really suprising how much you don't notice the lack of speed if the layout is the right size.
We're talking different kinds of speed. :-) I've got some 1/28 and 1/72 scale stuff thats' a barrel of laughs too.
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Old 04-24-2017, 03:38 PM   #164
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Ordered one. Should be here in few weeks. And to order from overseas. Didn't look to be coming to States anytime soon. I know carpet looks to be best choice for it. Or where they few videos for it have been shot at. Currently not an option for me. But I figured if F1 can run pavement. This should as well.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:22 AM   #165
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I wonder if the M06 might be the platform we're looking for... it's widly available.... it's inexpensive, and there's a ton of parts to make it do what you want it to do.
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