R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Like Tree123Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-23-2017, 08:06 AM   #91
Tech Master
 
CRFXXXT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,593
Trader Rating: 87 (99%+)
Default

Well, again, you don't need a 2.5T, a 10.5 or 8.5 are plenty to start with in mod.

Also, if more moved out like they should, you would be racing with the same group of locals that you currently are in stock. Granted, if you were winning stock weekly, youre not likely to win mod immediately, but thats how racing goes and thats what keeps guys in stock forever... everyone wants to win. Unfortunately thats why you get those life long stock drivers that just love to be on the cutting edge of motors and batteries.

And yes, my previous post was 100% true. If you ran any large race that is not ran by roar, you're likely racing people doing the same thing I described.
CRFXXXT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 08:15 AM   #92
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRFXXXT View Post
Regardless of the motor debates, what is funny to me is stock racing was originally intended to be a stepping stone to move into racing in a cost effective class, get your feet wet and then move up. If your fast enough in stock that you are searching for the newest, latest and greatest of motors, you need to move out of the class. I come from the off road world, so maybe the on road side is different?

Stock is a very competitive class locally with guys charging at 40A, running batteries that are on the verge of exploding with fire, gearing and timing their motors to the moon etc. In the end, if you moved out of the class to modified (or 13.5 if that is ran locally) it will be cheaper for you to race in the long run (you need 1 motor - mod is mod - you don't need a 2.5, you're not the next world champion... if you can drive well with a 8.5 , put it in and run it.), you don't need to charge at 40A so your IR is as low as possible, you don't need to gear to the moon to run the motor to 170 degrees etc.

Just my thoughts.
This is pretty much all correct. You will definitely see more "handout motor" spec classes that will replace the open motor variety we have now. On-road has really fallen off and the high costs and complexity are surely part of it. Beware - off-road is heading that way.

The good thing about modified is that it can NEVER be too fast. And if you find that it is too fast it is because you chose to over power your car. At the AOC race (Shanghai) two years ago most of the guys were racing with 4.5 motors while Nicholas Lee was using a 10.5. He was on the podium.

Even I run a 5.0 when others run 4.5. I choose a little less power because I am faster with less. But this is another argument. There is also human nature involved and the more classes we have the more winners we have. Even if one could step up to and handle a modified motor, the chance of winning a big race is pretty slim. That is why the DNC has five nitro buggy classes - with no differences in equipment among them.
gijoe64 likes this.
__________________
www.reedypower.com
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 08:20 AM   #93
Tech Champion
 
DARKSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville-Memphis
Posts: 8,453
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

some racers just like the class they are in...and if winning is all you are in this hobby for, then you are in the wrong hobby...cause more people lose, than will ever win...even the greats of all sports lose....name one who hasnt?....

I wouldnt even consider asking a racer to move out of a class....and nobody else should. Thats a racer that supports the hobby by buying all this stuff and putting entry fee money at the track...and going to big races that have 300-400 entries....so lets piss him off to lose that?....and lets not forget, the guy who buys all the latest crap...is taking a chance that it might be a waste of money...he may get a dog motor, or a flat lipo,....and he can pass that info on to others...hence saving them money

see guys...morals and what one might consider right or wrong, isnt the problem...cause half will agree...the other half wont. The current rules allow this to take place. They are legal motors...no matter what we think. When ROAR changes the rules...then we will have another group to ?????? about that rule change...

so Im stepping down of my soapbox to do some real work, so I can afford that $200 motor...J/K...Im sponsored, it doesnt cost me that much lllloooolllll

go to work
CRFXXXT likes this.
__________________
Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Team Associated/Reedy Powered/PROTOform
2017 U.S.VTA+ Southern Nationals in Music City U.S.A.
Sept 21-24th @ Thunder RC Raceway
1172 Park Ave, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 08:37 AM   #94
Tech Elite
 
jlfx car audio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: jackson,tn
Posts: 3,323
Trader Rating: 36 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niznai View Post
If that is true, I sure hope I never get to race with such competition. That is just plain old psychosis.

Satisfaction found in beating someone with a slower motor

Geez. And we are surprised we can't attract people to the hobby.
No we was saying HE has the slower motor and beat 36 guys with the new motors ...
jlfx car audio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 08:42 AM   #95
Tech Master
 
Kregger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,102
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
This is pretty much all correct. You will definitely see more "handout motor" spec classes that will replace the open motor variety we have now. On-road has really fallen off and the high costs and complexity are surely part of it. Beware - off-road is heading that way.
In my neck of the woods, off-road is already there it just hasn't reached the tipping point yet.
Kregger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 08:49 AM   #96
Tech Master
 
patorz31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edmonton Ab
Posts: 1,390
Default

The biggest problem Stock isn't stock anymore. It's SPEC racing, spec racing is expensive. In RC, in full size Road Course cars, and Dirt Late models (the three area's I SPEC race).
Spec Racing is racer speak for throw money at it.
__________________
Northern Alberta Scale Car Auto Racers Pres. and Promotions
TEAM POWERS, RACE-OPT, SCHUMACHER RACING,R-Factor, Bezerk RC
patorz31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 08:56 AM   #97
Tech Master
 
CRFXXXT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,593
Trader Rating: 87 (99%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
This is pretty much all correct. You will definitely see more "handout motor" spec classes that will replace the open motor variety we have now. On-road has really fallen off and the high costs and complexity are surely part of it. Beware - off-road is heading that way.
Living in a state that was once a "pinnacle" in off road (electric with SRS / Cactus Classic - 3 other tracks hosting 250+ entry events throughout the year, 4+ tracks all getting 100+ entries a night etc) to not having a single off road track for almost a year, yes, off road is heading that direction locally, for more reasons than stock motors being too fast, however that was a contributor to it. We had a D and E main of stock racing on most nights, while the mod class was lucky to run their own heat. If a track fails and 99% of your racers are racing stock that should say something about stock racing, the competitiveness, the costs of being competitive etc. and all of that contributes to racers just simply not showing up.

You should never be forced to run a specific class, but at the same time the questions come up weekly about why are stock motors getting so fast, where is the line of legal between brands etc. Best way to solve all questions is leave stock racing to the entry level racer looking to get their feet wet in racing, and race in the next class up.
CRFXXXT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 08:57 AM   #98
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Framingham, MA
Posts: 358
Default

I like the feedback you guys have so far. I think this is what I've seen so far.

Nearly everyone hates the idea of packing thermal epoxy in the stator for 2 reasons. The first being it would push the price of hand tuned motors over $180 and a mass produced version would likely have air pockets and hot spots. Done.

Most would like to see a stator resistance limit similar to the current 25.5, equal to the hottest stuff we have now. This should NOT outlaw any current stuff, but rather keep us from repeating the cycle in January 2019.

While the old ban on the 17.5 D3.5 was technically right, it was poorly received by people who had just spent good money on them and got screwed. If they were to outlaw TSR "the one", Motiv MC2, Maclan TE, and maybe the top R1 or Fantom, we would loose a lot of fed up racers. Let's not go there ever again.

We also had some questions about sedan chassis. First I have to admit I'm guilty of running my 16 Xray in USGT. It's nice when the out of the box setup with just a couple droop changes is 100% on pace. There are other options that aren't as pricey if you look hard. I'm sure I could run good laps with a Sukura Advance, if I spent 2 weeks tuning it.
I could also dig a 12 year old Corally RDX out of somebody's basement, swap the foam tires for spec rubber and drop the spring rates 20% and run good laps in USGT. I don't feel it's the same as being down 18% on power.
DARKSIDE likes this.
Eddie_E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 09:04 AM   #99
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,080
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Not everybody wins, but most would like to pay their way to the top.... New everything makes sure the industry sells more than guarantees a win... Have fun within your budget, and don't laugh at those running an older car that still runs a faster laptime than your latest and greatest chassis/motor/battery, etc,...
CRFXXXT and ZEe_NYC like this.
bertrandsv87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 09:06 AM   #100
Tech Champion
 
DARKSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville-Memphis
Posts: 8,453
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie_E View Post
I like the feedback you guys have so far. I think this is what I've seen so far.

Nearly everyone hates the idea of packing thermal epoxy in the stator for 2 reasons. The first being it would push the price of hand tuned motors over $180 and a mass produced version would likely have air pockets and hot spots. Done.

Most would like to see a stator resistance limit similar to the current 25.5, equal to the hottest stuff we have now. This should NOT outlaw any current stuff, but rather keep us from repeating the cycle in January 2019.

While the old ban on the 17.5 D3.5 was technically right, it was poorly received by people who had just spent good money on them and got screwed. If they were to outlaw TSR "the one", Motiv MC2, Maclan TE, and maybe the top R1 or Fantom, we would loose a lot of fed up racers. Let's not go there ever again.

We also had some questions about sedan chassis. First I have to admit I'm guilty of running my 16 Xray in USGT. It's nice when the out of the box setup with just a couple droop changes is 100% on pace. There are other options that aren't as pricey if you look hard. I'm sure I could run good laps with a Sukura Advance, if I spent 2 weeks tuning it.
I could also dig a 12 year old Corally RDX out of somebody's basement, swap the foam tires for spec rubber and drop the spring rates 20% and run good laps in USGT. I don't feel it's the same as being down 18% on power.
__________________
Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Team Associated/Reedy Powered/PROTOform
2017 U.S.VTA+ Southern Nationals in Music City U.S.A.
Sept 21-24th @ Thunder RC Raceway
1172 Park Ave, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 09:10 AM   #101
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Framingham, MA
Posts: 358
Default

I also see the locked timing thing or spec motor thing come up. I'm not a fan of those. Timing is too dependent on driving style and not being able to clean a motor helps nobody. Due to personal experience in a spec 2wd buggy class, I also would recommend that tracks who do a single spec class should make the spec slightly hotter than the regular class it replaces. The reason why is that during the transition from regular stock to spec, there will be holdouts and guys who are on a budget. The regular stock will always be run together with the spec class if there are only 3 or 4 of each motor. When slow spec motor the same wind as hot team motor has crashers outrunning the spec drivers down the straight, the spec motors disappear fast. A slow spec 13.5 could run with hot 17.5's with less of this. At that point it wouldn't be worth swapping motors back to a hot 17.5.
Eddie_E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 09:45 AM   #102
Tech Elite
 
Metalsoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 2,038
Trader Rating: 69 (100%+)
Default

Break out laps.

Run what ever you want

That way if you have a 550 4000 kv on 3s you can still race usgt.
Metalsoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 09:45 AM   #103
Tech Elite
 
jlfx car audio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: jackson,tn
Posts: 3,323
Trader Rating: 36 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie_E View Post
I also see the locked timing thing or spec motor thing come up. I'm not a fan of those. Timing is too dependent on driving style and not being able to clean a motor helps nobody. Due to personal experience in a spec 2wd buggy class, I also would recommend that tracks who do a single spec class should make the spec slightly hotter than the regular class it replaces. The reason why is that during the transition from regular stock to spec, there will be holdouts and guys who are on a budget. The regular stock will always be run together with the spec class if there are only 3 or 4 of each motor. When slow spec motor the same wind as hot team motor has crashers outrunning the spec drivers down the straight, the spec motors disappear fast. A slow spec 13.5 could run with hot 17.5's with less of this. At that point it wouldn't be worth swapping motors back to a hot 17.5.
To add to that . The new 21.5 motors are as fast as last yrs d4 ,v9,fantom 17.5....
New 17.5s are as you said as fast as most older 13.5 motors . So if a club was to allow racers to run 13.5 motors approved say in 2015 in 17.5 it would save newer budget racers mony same applies to 21.5 classes allowing older 17.5 motors to be ran on club level races ... Just to save money .
jlfx car audio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 09:59 AM   #104
Tech Champion
 
DARKSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville-Memphis
Posts: 8,453
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

good idea, till that guy running 17.5 motor in USGT beats some guys running legal 21.5's...then you do what?
__________________
Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Team Associated/Reedy Powered/PROTOform
2017 U.S.VTA+ Southern Nationals in Music City U.S.A.
Sept 21-24th @ Thunder RC Raceway
1172 Park Ave, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 10:15 AM   #105
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Framingham, MA
Posts: 358
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
good idea, till that guy running 17.5 motor in USGT beats some guys running legal 21.5's...then you do what?
Shake his hand and say good job. Then jokingly say " hey now that your winning your could buy a legal motor.".
The peer pressure at that point is usually enough. No need to be a dick at all.
Eddie_E is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
lrp spx stock spec chuckharrisjr Electric On-Road 1131 02-22-2017 10:58 PM
Future of Stock Class racing csracing Electric Off-Road 154 08-26-2010 01:05 PM
Brushless and Brushed stock equivalent... Are we getting it right ? Tpg racer Malaysian R/C Racers 31 11-20-2008 07:14 AM
Should manufacturers be prevented from sponsoring stock brushless drivers? NovakTwo Electric On-Road 98 07-12-2007 06:59 PM
Stock Brushless Alternatives dr_hfuhuhurr Electric On-Road 41 01-08-2007 01:46 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:35 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net