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Old 02-22-2017, 10:45 PM   #76
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I started in 540 / Sports Tuned, and was going through a $30 motor every 2-3 weeks, and you'd usually buy a few looking for a "good one" Soooo much cheaper now!
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:53 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
I know when we ran Tamiya Mini with a control Ezrun Combo (35A Esc 13T motor) people would buy 4 or 5 motors, and there were differences, one would have a strong rotor another a strong stator, and $400 in motors later you'd have one which made the control but was a beast! The counter for that is "We'll mark the screws so they can't be opened" but that denies users the ability to perform basic maintenance (oil bearings etc) and doesn't change that some motors will be better than others.
You're the first I've seen to make that claim with the ezRun motors. Everyone else seems happy with them, and the rc-mini crew did a bunch of testing to ensure reasonable consistency. We're still running that class.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:00 PM   #78
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I just don't see how one same turn motor destroys another. What are the hot 21.5T, 17.5T, and 13.5T motors now? I'm so out of the loop.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:59 PM   #79
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Do we then handicap based on chassis? Battery? ESC? Transmitter?

Bit of a can of worms here.
Not at all.

I would challenge anyone to prove that a chassis at any price point at or above say a TRF (random choice to satisfy worldwide familiarity) would give any significant advantage.

I have run chassies as different as say Yok SD and Xray, and TRF, and Capricorn, and Robitronic, Yok BD and have found no significant difference. After some initial getting used to it, they all ended up performing the same in my hands.

As for the ESC, when it's blinky it's all the same. Transmitters can't even think of any advantage they would give you. We have people who drive transmitters as old as 10 or more years and they still woop the field. One of the top racers in 1/8 actually has a stick radio!

Or fi you still think there is some difference, just go fixed gearing. Easy to check, impervious to technology developments (in conjunction with blinky mode), etc. Done.
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Old 02-23-2017, 12:06 AM   #80
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Not at all.

I would challenge anyone to prove that a chassis at any price point at or above say a TRF (random choice to satisfy worldwide familiarity) would give any significant advantage.

I have run chassies as different as say Yok SD and Xray, and TRF, and Capricorn, and Robitronic, Yok BD and have found no significant difference. After some initial getting used to it, they all ended up performing the same in my hands.

As for the ESC, when it's blinky it's all the same. Transmitters can't even think of any advantage they would give you. We have people who drive transmitters as old as 10 or more years and they still woop the field.

Or fi you still think there is some difference, just go fixed gearing. Easy to check, impervious to technology developments (in conjunction with blinky mode), etc. Done.
Each car has a different internal ratio though, and some can buy after market pulleys to change that internal radio (ie TA05) so you can't really dictate a pinion/spur combination
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:03 AM   #81
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No, but you can still measure it reliably and very quickly/simply.

I thought you had a machine that does that?

By the way, I think at the last state titles you checked my TRF418 which is running Xray pulleys, and you got it right, so there you go.
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Old 02-23-2017, 05:17 AM   #82
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I just don't see how one same turn motor destroys another. What are the hot 21.5T, 17.5T, and 13.5T motors now? I'm so out of the loop.
Team Scream, Motiv, etc....for the hot motors at the moment. As far as a difference between motors....HUGE. You can buy three of the same motors, get 3 different levels of performance and all 3 will have different weights. Doesn't matter if they are made on the same day, same person, same parts......all three will be totally different.
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Old 02-23-2017, 05:23 AM   #83
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Team Scream, Motiv, etc....for the hot motors at the moment. As far as a difference between motors....HUGE. You can buy three of the same motors, get 3 different levels of performance and all 3 will have different weights. Doesn't matter if they are made on the same day, same person, same parts......all three will be totally different.
Can't speak for TSR, but Paul and Brian at Motiv work damn hard to make sure all the motors they ship out are within their acceptable range. Even with the massive rush of orders they've had for the MC2 the quality of product hasn't slipped at all.
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Old 02-23-2017, 06:37 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by skater-deez1 View Post
Team Scream, Motiv, etc....for the hot motors at the moment. As far as a difference between motors....HUGE. You can buy three of the same motors, get 3 different levels of performance and all 3 will have different weights. Doesn't matter if they are made on the same day, same person, same parts......all three will be totally different.
I do not agree . Sweet spot for tsr17.5 is nearly identical for 7 motprs I personally tested at snowbirds . We tried running gearing all over the place and it seemed lap times were pretty even across the spectrum but some gearing choices faided thru out the run . We have ran a over the counter 17.5 and a top of the line team the one and ran same laps . I've seen EA run 5 different motors from 2 companies with very similar lap times .... The new motiv and TSR motors are very consistent from one to the next when setting them up properly with a motorlizer. Rotors might have slight issues with some testing tools but the best in hand vs the worst in have don't make a noticeable difference in a 6min race.
Now confidence in your equipment ....Makes the biggest difference ....
So test 100% blindly and you will be surprised at how close the new crop really is
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Old 02-23-2017, 07:30 AM   #85
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a lot of good info here...but lets look at the big pitcure....are any of you running older motors?....I just go back for the Nats in Ft Wayne...out of all the guys running USGT/21.5, me and my AE teammate was the only ones running last years model(Reedy M3)....and I was the only one that even considered a Novak 25.5 in VTA(I think maybe another)...everyone else had a newer motor....the funny thing was I didnt see anyone call foul...meaning the motors had to be fairly equal.

Next thing is a point I brought up before....when you consider cost. Most of the stock racers...17.5 or 21.5, not so much 25.5(VTA), buy a fresh motor every season....or when a new motor drops....and then you buy at least 2-3 to get that "good" one....if Trinity,TSR or any company is willing to give you the option of getting the best of the bunch of the rip, why not...yes its cost you a extra $50...but if you bought 2 motors, thats a saving right there. I know most of the fast guys have only 1 TSR....there really isnt a need for 2 or 3 of them, cause you already have the best one....

now the downside to any of this is that racers are our own worst enemy....we want it, we buy it...does it make it right?...no, but if your pockets allow, why not. You work and you deserve that $150 motor to beat your buddy running that slow $40 motor?...right?.. only solution is for them to step up and get that hot motor or run something more affordable....or maybe do what Ive been doing for 6 months since all this started...work on my driving and setup. Ive got a lot faster since our(Reedy) became underpowered...my lines are tighter and I make less mistakes...I cant afford to make any....One mistake makes 3 corners and a straight ....turns to a lap down really quick.

to keep up with the new motors, will require you to work on the other varibles of racing, and perfect them.....it doesnt mean a "W", but it is very satifying to beat 36 other cars with a slower motor.

Lets just try and see what ROAR does, and others and see what comes out of this....In the mean time, just come run some USVTA and leave the motor headache behind you...Just saying...

Good luck guys
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Old 02-23-2017, 07:33 AM   #86
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Seems like there's a thread about '17.5 too fast' /slash/ 'how can we fix this' every other week.

It's a joke at the club level.
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Old 02-23-2017, 07:42 AM   #87
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Regardless of the motor debates, what is funny to me is stock racing was originally intended to be a stepping stone to move into racing in a cost effective class, get your feet wet and then move up. If your fast enough in stock that you are searching for the newest, latest and greatest of motors, you need to move out of the class. I come from the off road world, so maybe the on road side is different?

Stock is a very competitive class locally with guys charging at 40A, running batteries that are on the verge of exploding with fire, gearing and timing their motors to the moon etc. In the end, if you moved out of the class to modified (or 13.5 if that is ran locally) it will be cheaper for you to race in the long run (you need 1 motor - mod is mod - you don't need a 2.5, you're not the next world champion... if you can drive well with a 8.5 , put it in and run it.), you don't need to charge at 40A so your IR is as low as possible, you don't need to gear to the moon to run the motor to 170 degrees etc.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 02-23-2017, 07:53 AM   #88
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I agree, but most guys cant drive mod, me included...Im working on it....but Im faster with a 17.5 car than mod....and when you out there with the mod guys...you are really in the way....Its a long running curve. Also you may not need a new battery or motor...but you will need parts...LOTS of them...and not just for the broken ones, but the ones you wear out cause of the high speeds....


so pros and cons for each....do I think some guys need to be in Mod?...dont know, but thats like telling me not to run VTA or GT...lol...not going to happen. I love the class, and its where my skill set allows me to be confortable and have fun....but I will look into 17.5 and mod more and more
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Old 02-23-2017, 08:02 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post

[...]

Next thing is a point I brought up before....when you consider cost. Most of the stock racers...17.5 or 21.5, not so much 25.5(VTA), buy a fresh motor every season....or when a new motor drops....and then you buy at least 2-3 to get that "good" one....if Trinity,TSR or any company is willing to give you the option of getting the best of the bunch of the rip, why not...yes its cost you a extra $50...but if you bought 2 motors, thats a saving right there. I know most of the fast guys have only 1 TSR....there really isnt a need for 2 or 3 of them, cause you already have the best one....

now the downside to any of this is that racers are our own worst enemy....we want it, we buy it...does it make it right?...no, but if your pockets allow, why not. You work and you deserve that $150 motor to beat your buddy running that slow $40 motor?...right?.. only solution is for them to step up and get that hot motor or run something more affordable....or maybe do what Ive been doing for 6 months since all this started...work on my driving and setup. Ive got a lot faster since our(Reedy) became underpowered...my lines are tighter and I make less mistakes...I cant afford to make any....One mistake makes 3 corners and a straight ....turns to a lap down really quick.

to keep up with the new motors, will require you to work on the other varibles of racing, and perfect them.....it doesnt mean a "W", but it is very satifying to beat 36 other cars with a slower motor.

Lets just try and see what ROAR does, and others and see what comes out of this....In the mean time, just come run some USVTA and leave the motor headache behind you...Just saying...

Good luck guys
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Originally Posted by CRFXXXT View Post
Regardless of the motor debates, what is funny to me is stock racing was originally intended to be a stepping stone to move into racing in a cost effective class, get your feet wet and then move up. If your fast enough in stock that you are searching for the newest, latest and greatest of motors, you need to move out of the class. I come from the off road world, so maybe the on road side is different?

Stock is a very competitive class locally with guys charging at 40A, running batteries that are on the verge of exploding with fire, gearing and timing their motors to the moon etc. In the end, if you moved out of the class to modified (or 13.5 if that is ran locally) it will be cheaper for you to race in the long run (you need 1 motor - mod is mod - you don't need a 2.5, you're not the next world champion... if you can drive well with a 8.5 , put it in and run it.), you don't need to charge at 40A so your IR is as low as possible, you don't need to gear to the moon to run the motor to 170 degrees etc.

Just my thoughts.

If that is true, I sure hope I never get to race with such competition. That is just plain old psychosis.

Satisfaction found in beating someone with a slower motor (isn't that a foregone conclusion? Kinda like taking candy from a baby or shooting some defenceless animal?).

Buying a bunch of motors just to be sure you get "the one". (what if you don't?)

Entitlement doubts - you worked hence deserve the motor (yeah, sure, you deserve anything you want and there's companies only too happy to take your hard earned cash if that's your only chance to happiness).

How about someone who inherited a fortune - do they deserve whatever they can buy?
Yes? So what is the difference then?
No? Why not?

Geez. And we are surprised we can't attract people to the hobby.
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Old 02-23-2017, 08:05 AM   #90
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+1 on that one..... I apply the same principle to my chassis too: tc4 for me all the way, and I try to beat those newer cars with driving and setup.... I've only managed to beat just a few, but that only means I need better setup/driving, not another chassis/motor, etc, every season... My tc4 weight loss program was the only upgrade I felt was needed, so I can run a 7500mah(low voltage drop) pack without being overweight too much....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
a lot of good info here...but lets look at the big pitcure....are any of you running older motors?....I just go back for the Nats in Ft Wayne...out of all the guys running USGT/21.5, me and my AE teammate was the only ones running last years model(Reedy M3)....and I was the only one that even considered a Novak 25.5 in VTA(I think maybe another)...everyone else had a newer motor....the funny thing was I didnt see anyone call foul...meaning the motors had to be fairly equal.

Next thing is a point I brought up before....when you consider cost. Most of the stock racers...17.5 or 21.5, not so much 25.5(VTA), buy a fresh motor every season....or when a new motor drops....and then you buy at least 2-3 to get that "good" one....if Trinity,TSR or any company is willing to give you the option of getting the best of the bunch of the rip, why not...yes its cost you a extra $50...but if you bought 2 motors, thats a saving right there. I know most of the fast guys have only 1 TSR....there really isnt a need for 2 or 3 of them, cause you already have the best one....

now the downside to any of this is that racers are our own worst enemy....we want it, we buy it...does it make it right?...no, but if your pockets allow, why not. You work and you deserve that $150 motor to beat your buddy running that slow $40 motor?...right?.. only solution is for them to step up and get that hot motor or run something more affordable....or maybe do what Ive been doing for 6 months since all this started...work on my driving and setup. Ive got a lot faster since our(Reedy) became underpowered...my lines are tighter and I make less mistakes...I cant afford to make any....One mistake makes 3 corners and a straight ....turns to a lap down really quick.

to keep up with the new motors, will require you to work on the other varibles of racing, and perfect them.....it doesnt mean a "W", but it is very satifying to beat 36 other cars with a slower motor.

Lets just try and see what ROAR does, and others and see what comes out of this....In the mean time, just come run some USVTA and leave the motor headache behind you...Just saying...

Good luck guys
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