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Old 02-22-2017, 04:23 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
It is all to do with ROAR. Snowbirds used ROAR's resistance numbers. Birds or ROAR Nats, the same motors would have been DQed from competition.
If ROAR has resistance numbers they're using why aren't they posted in the rules? That would put an end to most of the current complaining about the state of stock motors.
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Old 02-22-2017, 06:58 AM   #47
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IMO it's natural r&d progression. there's always a way to get faster.

My team scream 21.5 is near the kv with less amp draw of the d3.5 17.5 at the same amount of timing - as I expect 17.5 these days to be much faster than a 13.5 of the first generation.
This is what I'm seeing locally, especially in 1/12 17.5.
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:22 AM   #48
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If ROAR has resistance numbers they're using why aren't they posted in the rules? That would put an end to most of the current complaining about the state of stock motors.
This number comes from the motors sent to ROAR for approval. They record these numbers so when you present your motor for inspection at a race they know what to expect.

Because each motor is designed differently, it is almost impossible to pick one number for a resistance reading. Not saying you couldn't do it but just be prepared for the consequences of the decision.
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:32 AM   #49
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This number comes from the motors sent to ROAR for approval. They record these numbers so when you present your motor for inspection at a race they know what to expect.

Because each motor is designed differently, it is almost impossible to pick one number for a resistance reading. Not saying you couldn't do it but just be prepared for the consequences of the decision.
Now with ROAR's 25.5 rules, the resistance number is fixed. Everyone shoots for the same number.
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:48 AM   #50
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Now with ROAR's 25.5 rules, the resistance number is fixed. Everyone shoots for the same number.
Correct. That was when the rule was first announced.

Now if you try and apply a similar rule to the 13.5, 17.5, or 21.5 motors someone will not be happy unless they pick a number that all existing production motors will meet.
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Old 02-22-2017, 09:30 AM   #51
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Correct. That was when the rule was first announced.

Now if you try and apply a similar rule to the 13.5, 17.5, or 21.5 motors someone will not be happy unless they pick a number that all existing production motors will meet.
I do tech at our state series and I only see 2 motors that read below 17.5 - 40 miliohms & 21.5 - 60 miliohms readings. If they would set these numbers in stone now it would only cause a small ripple but if they wait it will cause a bigger ripple.

I say 25.5 - 100, 21.5 - 60 & 17.5 - 40 miliohms. I use a Fantom Facts Machine 2 to do all of our track testing.

They also need to stop exotic materials being used on rotors. I see this becoming an issue soon. $140 motors & them $40-$50 rotors. Lol.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:55 PM   #52
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I do tech at our state series and I only see 2 motors that read below 17.5 - 40 miliohms & 21.5 - 60 miliohms readings. If they would set these numbers in stone now it would only cause a small ripple but if they wait it will cause a bigger ripple.

I say 25.5 - 100, 21.5 - 60 & 17.5 - 40 miliohms. I use a Fantom Facts Machine 2 to do all of our track testing.

They also need to stop exotic materials being used on rotors. I see this becoming an issue soon. $140 motors & them $40-$50 rotors. Lol.
I'd prefer a price cap rather than a material ban. There's nothing stopping them charging $40+ for a bland rotor.
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Old 02-22-2017, 02:25 PM   #53
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They had a material ban before during the brushed years: no neo magnets on brushed motors then.... I guess brushless came at the right time to make full use of neo materials. It will be hard to ban exotic materials now, since they've opened up all the flood gates...
A price cap won't work either since the price of all these materials will drop drastically overtime anyway with the Chinese/Indian/African/American mines in full production mode, etc,...

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Old 02-22-2017, 03:00 PM   #54
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They had a material ban before during the brushed years: no neo magnets on brushed motors then.... I guess brushless came at the right time to make full use of neo materials. It will be hard to ban exotic materials now, since they've opened up all the flood gates...
A price cap won't work either since the price of all these materials will drop drastically overtime anyway with the Chinese/Indian/African/American mines in full production mode, etc,...
If the exotic materials get cheap enough to be viable in a price capped rotor, then the price cap is still doing its job. The aim is to keep things affordable.
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Old 02-22-2017, 04:33 PM   #55
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I thought it was more important to keep motor performance about equal first, then relatively affordable after....
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Old 02-22-2017, 04:45 PM   #56
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I thought it was more important to keep motor performance about equal first, then relatively affordable after....
Well, it's both. But if everyone is using the same fancy materials and keeping it affordable, then there isn't really a problem.
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Old 02-22-2017, 04:51 PM   #57
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For all the complaining i just wanted to thank all of these motor guys.. the fact that they have 17.5's that can outrun 13.5's from just a couple of years ago is crazy. That is a insane amout of time and testing which is why they cost what they do. In any other industry these guys would get a raise for a job well done but in rc everyone wants to punish them. I also never understood why there are 20 threads with motor concerns and 0 about batteries.
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Old 02-22-2017, 05:04 PM   #58
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Ok...Fair enough...
Batteries/drivetrain mass/ zero front/rear toe setup/body drag, etc, and the list goes on....lol....
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Old 02-22-2017, 05:06 PM   #59
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Hey why not, I love paying $100 for a stock motor....


Awesome sauce.

Oh its not just that, I purchased a $125 motor a year ago and its already obsolete. Motors are becoming like computers and cell phones.
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Old 02-22-2017, 05:33 PM   #60
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At some point a decision needs to be made, do we encourage research and development of motors within what is already a fairly well defined set of rules? If so then we need ALL regulatory bodies on board and attempts to stifle this such as through control motors and such need to stop.

OR do we implement what I like to call "Nanny State" racing, where regulatory bodies implement a control motor which we must all run, with a fixed timing figure and perhaps then fixed FDR's, but then other factors will need control, Batteries (Internal resistance makes a massive difference to car speed in the 21.5 classes I have found) ESC's, do we then go the whole way and control what chassis everyone runs, what radio? What transponder? What colour underpants you wear while racing? (You see my point....) What we have for breakfast?

I find it staggering that people attempt to throw these controls in, then react badly when they are faced with opposition? Look at your key demographic, your average racer is most likely (not always, there are some females racing) male and often married with/without kids or a younger person living at home. They are given rules and controls at home (Happy wife happy life?) or at work, school etc, for many RC racing is a much needed outlet a way to maintain their sanity so of course they are going to react when you want to throw more controls / rules at them there when every other aspect of their life is dictated that way.

For all the discussion about motors being obsolete, high cost of the latest gear etc, I can tell you unless you race a perfect run every race, you're more likely to lose a race by clipping a curb or having a brain fade and overdoing it into a corner etc than you are by having a motor that is 6 months old and not the latest or the best.
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