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Old 02-21-2017, 06:52 PM   #31
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Rick, agreed on the $90 cost point but apparently the industry has set that baseline cost for us, the racers to have a maintainence free motor. With that said, I'll gladly pay $5 additional dollars for a proven faster version. That doesn't mean I don't think the cost is high, but for not having to true up a comm, keep numerous brush flavors on-hand, numerous springs, a comm lathe, comm drops, and run it on a Fantom dyno, oh yeah, and of course a good base motor to start with from guys like EA, the new cost of $90 is worth it to me.

The days of cheaper stock motors vs more expensive mod motors are long gone. I believe that several of these companies are adding additional touch labor into the assembly of the motors and therefore increasing cost. I also believe that the demand for mod has fallen off quite a bit from where it used to be back when the pricing scenario was reversed. In the state of FL, there is no organized mod on-road racing in the state.

Again, just my opinion, not here to argue.
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:58 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by SRC_DRIVER View Post
+1 I remember racing stock classes a the Losi offroad races as well as the Roar Carpet Oval Nats where handout motors were issued. Even tires for the offroad stuff.. It evens up the playing field for sure.
The issue is variation over a production run.

For example, I dyno'd 4 different (new) Trackstar V2 21.5 motors which are Roar legal.

Which one would you prefer?

Now the counter arguement is "We would use a more reputable brand" (Ok, but why do you think Trinity charge a bucket load more for a top 5% Motor? Because there is variation, they've turned it into a marketing opportunity, good on them, but not all motors will be equal)

Or "We would set the timing on a motor analyser so each motor has the same KV" (That's fine but they are unloaded, I can set two 21.5 motors to give the same unloaded kv as well, but they will behave differently on the track if one is producing more power than the other, it will run cooler and can be geared harder and have less fade)

You want to run control motors? Then someone needs to take the time to dyno (not run on a $150 analyser) them to make sure they all sit within 2-3% of each other in terms of torque, efficiency etc at a set voltage and at the same timing and kv values. It's labour intensive, and many people (including those setting these rules) lack the technical knowledge to do this.
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Old 02-21-2017, 07:06 PM   #33
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we have just started using these motors for our interclub series

HOBBYWING XRS MOTOR JUSTOCK G2 - 13.5 (XY309950) - RC Hobby Land

racers can either hire them or buy one outright, they are fixed timing

First round has just been run and was lots of really close fun racing, there were no real surprises with the results, and times were not far off we were doing with our regular motors.

It can be done.

keep in mind a quick motor in Aus can cost up to $190 so a $70 control motor is a good option.

There are those against it, some I get the feeling they wont be quick enough with a level playing field but are usually not at the pointy end anyway, but that's my opinion
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Old 02-21-2017, 07:37 PM   #34
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we have just started using these motors for our interclub series

HOBBYWING XRS MOTOR JUSTOCK G2 - 13.5 (XY309950) - RC Hobby Land

racers can either hire them or buy one outright, they are fixed timing

First round has just been run and was lots of really close fun racing, there were no real surprises with the results, and times were not far off we were doing with our regular motors.

It can be done.

keep in mind a quick motor in Aus can cost up to $190 so a $70 control motor is a good option.

There are those against it, some I get the feeling they wont be quick enough with a level playing field but are usually not at the pointy end anyway, but that's my opinion
But are these intended to be for people who usually race 13.5? How do they compare to a 13.5 say R1 motor which most people in that class would have? I bought a 21.5 Justock motor to test against what we usually run in 21.5 (Fantom FR-1 etc) on the dyno it was 80 Watts compared to the Fantom at 120W. The timing was out between phases (5 or 6 degree variation) and on the track, I geared it at 2.6 FDR came off at 45c but lap times were 6 seconds a lap slower than what we usually sit at with 21.5 (Fantom FR-1 etc geared around 3 FDR)

Plus side, I didn't have to let go of the throttle once! Flat stick the whole way, but BOOOORRRRIIIINNNNGGG!

I don't see that enticing people with the promise of fair racing, I see it boring people silly and we may need bedding and pillows on the drivers stand!
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Old 02-21-2017, 07:58 PM   #35
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the 21.5 class raced the same version, everyone who raced had to run the handout motor.

I usually race an R1 13.5 and my lap times around SMA were usually about 16.5-16.6 during the day, and I was doing 16.7-16.8 times . Some of the better drivers got down 16.5.

these motors are quicker then the standard Juststock motors.

There was certainly no slowness about them. Gearing was actually the same as what I run the R1 V7 at if not a little lower as they have more torque down low.

Don't knock it until you have tried it, that's all I am saying.

EDIT yay that was my 1500 useless posts in this forum
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Old 02-21-2017, 08:03 PM   #36
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What is the problem with handout motors at big races? Why is this not a thing anymore?
Because most of us have a legal motor already...

Just my opinion here.

$30 for the race
$40 for the motor
$25 for tires


$95 to race. I'd rather spend $95 for the flavor of the week, at least it will be screaming fast till it is outlawed.
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Old 02-21-2017, 09:41 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by evochick View Post
the 21.5 class raced the same version, everyone who raced had to run the handout motor.

I usually race an R1 13.5 and my lap times around SMA were usually about 16.5-16.6 during the day, and I was doing 16.7-16.8 times . Some of the better drivers got down 16.5.

these motors are quicker then the standard Juststock motors.

There was certainly no slowness about them. Gearing was actually the same as what I run the R1 V7 at if not a little lower as they have more torque down low.

Don't knock it until you have tried it, that's all I am saying.

EDIT yay that was my 1500 useless posts in this forum
Bare in mind with those times, the 13.5 lap record at SMA is 16.0, in far cooler conditions, and higher grip level. To be at 16.5 is very close on pace.
Even last night in the first club meeting since the XRS, a number of guys ran the XRS motor, and you could only tell the difference at the very end of the straight. The driver who won the final ran one, against a FR-1 of said track record holder...
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Old 02-21-2017, 09:57 PM   #38
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Bare in mind with those times, the 13.5 lap record at SMA is 16.0, in far cooler conditions, and higher grip level. To be at 16.5 is very close on pace.
Even last night in the first club meeting since the XRS, a number of guys ran the XRS motor, and you could only tell the difference at the very end of the straight. The driver who won the final ran one, against a FR-1 of said track record holder...
So the assertion is these are close to the 13.5 motors people run if geared at a similar level? What is the real timing on them considering the original Justock was around 25 degrees, and most motors people seem to sit between 50 and 55 degrees.

What is the track size, would you expect similar results / comparability on say a large outdoor track?

I'm tempted to grab one to test for myself, but would ask that those favouring these concept be open to the results whether they do or don't support their arguement, and use any data (which would be factual and backed up) to make an informed decision in the best interest of all racers.

So there's the challenge guys.....
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Old 02-21-2017, 10:40 PM   #39
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So the assertion is these are close to the 13.5 motors people run if geared at a similar level? What is the real timing on them considering the original Justock was around 25 degrees, and most motors people seem to sit between 50 and 55 degrees.

What is the track size, would you expect similar results / comparability on say a large outdoor track?

I'm tempted to grab one to test for myself, but would ask that those favouring these concept be open to the results whether they do or don't support their arguement, and use any data (which would be factual and backed up) to make an informed decision in the best interest of all racers.

So there's the challenge guys.....
Nexus I think the idea is to get affordable competitive racing not everyone wants to buy hundreds of dollars worth of engines and engine dynos and the like to race 21.5. And if that means jumping up a class so you don't need a pillow on the drivers stand what's the problem?
I don't think $200 certified motors is helping our hobby/sport IMO.

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Old 02-21-2017, 11:00 PM   #40
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I agree, I race 21.5 because frankly I'm not good enough to race the faster classes without making mistakes (regularly), call it old age. The motor tweaking / tuning / dynoing is more of an interest to me than any other part of the hobby, some people like set ups, shock piston hole discussions etc, I like motors. Jumping up a class I have considered, but the level of driver and expense in 13.5 is far more than that in 21.5 and I don't want to be the muppet who costs someone in those classes a state title because I couldn't get out of their way.
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:10 PM   #41
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IMO it's natural r&d progression. there's always a way to get faster.

My team scream 21.5 is near the kv with less amp draw of the d3.5 17.5 at the same amount of timing - as I expect 17.5 these days to be much faster than a 13.5 of the first generation.
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:16 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
So the assertion is these are close to the 13.5 motors people run if geared at a similar level? What is the real timing on them considering the original Justock was around 25 degrees, and most motors people seem to sit between 50 and 55 degrees.

What is the track size, would you expect similar results / comparability on say a large outdoor track?

I'm tempted to grab one to test for myself, but would ask that those favouring these concept be open to the results whether they do or don't support their arguement, and use any data (which would be factual and backed up) to make an informed decision in the best interest of all racers.

So there's the challenge guys.....
The key with control motors is that the motors are close to each other.

A faster or slower motor can be selected as required to provide the desired speed.
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:42 PM   #43
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IMO it's natural r&d progression. there's always a way to get faster.

My team scream 21.5 is near the kv with less amp draw of the d3.5 17.5 at the same amount of timing - as I expect 17.5 these days to be much faster than a 13.5 of the first generation.
That's fine I understand the progression but when do you draw the line? When stock is not far from mod lap times at some tracks

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Old 02-21-2017, 11:50 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by evochick View Post
we have just started using these motors for our interclub series

HOBBYWING XRS MOTOR JUSTOCK G2 - 13.5 (XY309950) - RC Hobby Land

racers can either hire them or buy one outright, they are fixed timing

First round has just been run and was lots of really close fun racing, there were no real surprises with the results, and times were not far off we were doing with our regular motors.

It can be done.

keep in mind a quick motor in Aus can cost up to $190 so a $70 control motor is a good option.

There are those against it, some I get the feeling they wont be quick enough with a level playing field but are usually not at the pointy end anyway, but that's my opinion
Hey after racing with this fixed motor do you think it would be easier for people to step up from 21.5 opposed to the open motor 13.5?
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:16 AM   #45
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Hey after racing with this fixed motor do you think it would be easier for people to step up from 21.5 opposed to the open motor 13.5?
i dont know its ever easy stepping up a class.
what i have found is that you need to be more precise with car prep and driving each step, and it just takes time no matter what.
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