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Old 02-21-2017, 10:57 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by bertrandsv87 View Post
I think roar wants to make 21.5t the new stock, not 17.5t...
ROAR is not considering this. It's a suggestion from racers at 360.

Over on the VTA/USGT threads there has been a lot of talk about having minimum resistance values for the coils. Right now only 25.5 motors have these regulations. A min resistance rule would have prevented the current short stack motors.

We need to address this because motor costs are getting out of control. RC is seeing a slight resurgence in participation, but a motor war could kill it.

And this years carpet nationals will be one for the ages. While sign ups are a little light, the host hotel is sold out!
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:21 AM   #17
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I agree, it looks like a decent turnout but they opened up stock spec classes to mod racers because they aren't getting the participation they want. There is a facebook post from them stating that. They also stated the possibility of dropping F1 and 235 Pan car due to low participation.
That decision is because there is only 2 tc classes instead of 3 like last year. It was done before for the same reason in 2012 as well.

Nats entries typically come in late for whatever reason. With the amount of entries there are now, I would expect there will be 50+ stock tc at the race
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Old 02-21-2017, 12:05 PM   #18
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The current pricing for TSR's new motor continues to be supported by the high demand. Until the demand diminishes, the price will probably stay in place. However, I think Paul/Motiv has done a good job at offering his latest and greatest at a substantially lower price and keeping the price in an acceptable range. In my opinion, getting his product to market so quickly behind that of TSR, it certainly has made its' impact in many ways, both to his company and what would have been potential TSR sales.

With where Motiv came into the market at about $105, I'm not sure I would call the "cost of stock motors out of control" just yet. And for what it's worth, the standard $95 version of the TSR is an outstanding motor and in the hands of most racers out there, it's more than enough to power you to the win. If you believe that you MUST have "the one" version to win, you're kidding yourself.

Just my opinion.....
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Old 02-21-2017, 12:20 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ASM View Post
The current pricing for TSR's new motor continues to be supported by the high demand. Until the demand diminishes, the price will probably stay in place. However, I think Paul/Motiv has done a good job at offering his latest and greatest at a substantially lower price and keeping the price in an acceptable range. In my opinion, getting his product to market so quickly behind that of TSR, it certainly has made its' impact in many ways, both to his company and what would have been potential TSR sales.

With where Motiv came into the market at about $105, I'm not sure I would call the "cost of stock motors out of control" just yet. And for what it's worth, the standard $95 version of the TSR is an outstanding motor and in the hands of most racers out there, it's more than enough to power you to the win. If you believe that you MUST have "the one" version to win, you're kidding yourself.

Just my opinion.....
Agree, I spent $90 for my Fantom and to me that is ridiculous. These are not that hard to make, giving current technology. The problem was that indeed I did need the motor to keep up. Driving skill was there, but power was not. I couldn't believe the difference ( .5 sec per lap, no the Trackstar was fast, but the 21.5T fantom was damn near a 17.5T ) in my $30 Trackstar and the $100 Fantom. Not sure what the answer is, but at this rate, we could end paying a ton in the next few years for a good motor.

Problem is those dollar signs kill stock racing IMO.

A decent car $200
Decent servo $30
Decent Radio $100
Decent Battery $40
Decent charger $50

Decent motor $100 - $150

You are just over $500 before you even buy the spec tires and body ( Using USGT as an example )

We don't want motor wars, ( I'm sure motiv, Reedy and TSR don't mind ) but it seems it is starting to reel it's ugly head.
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Old 02-21-2017, 12:39 PM   #20
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all spec motors need a "cap" like the 25.5 motors...easy solution...some of the best 21.5's are around 28, maybe 27...make the cap 26 and lets play
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Old 02-21-2017, 01:24 PM   #21
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Maybe a "BERT cap", 29 or more .....lol......
I have the v1 Fantom, and my car is pretty fast down the straight. Everywhere else, my driving is the issue, but I am working on it...
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Old 02-21-2017, 01:25 PM   #22
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My point was this, previously off the shelf motors, Reedy M3's, Fantom, Motiv, Trinity 24k and other motors of this caliber, they ran you about $90....and in fact they still do right now at the largest on-line Hobby Shop. So, if you can buy the very latest, and fastest versions out there for a $95 TSR or a $105 Motiv, I'm not sure I see the problem.

In fact, for me, I had multiples (of the previous) versions of 17.5's in my pit box - Reedy M3, Motiv, and Fantom that I have been able to sell off and instead now I keep just 1ea of the newest versions from TSR. So instead of multiples, I now have one. I even made money on the whole thing and only worry about just one motor. I have done this with 17.5 and 21.5. I went from about 7 or 8 motors to just 2.

From the standpoint of using a Trackstar or similar costing brands, I understand your position.

I'm not a big fan of capping costs in most racing classes. For this simple reason, why would anyone see it necessary to eliminate a motor based on cost from 17.5, or even USGT when it's not a problem if someone can enter the class using an $800 chassis? Look, an $800 chassis is perfectly legal in USVTA, the most controlled of all classes. Certainly, has to make some racers using old Tamiya's or AE's scratch their head, huh? Many guys using older chassis' that are getting beat by Awesomatix chassis' are scratching their heads just as much as the guys with old motors vs ones with new motors. Right? But where is the uproar in this? There is a huge dollar difference in that scenario. Not so much with the motors.....

I say let this motor situation play out a bit more before making decisions about motors. Again, I have actually made money, cut down on the number of motors I have, and eliminated "which brand of motor" to use when I go race. I see it as a positive. Not all will, I understand that.
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Old 02-21-2017, 01:34 PM   #23
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Very good points...
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Originally Posted by ASM View Post
My point was this, previously off the shelf motors, Reedy M3's, Fantom, Motiv, Trinity 24k and other motors of this caliber, they ran you about $90....and in fact they still do right now at the largest on-line Hobby Shop. So, if you can buy the very latest, and fastest versions out there for a $95 TSR or a $105 Motiv, I'm not sure I see the problem.

In fact, for me, I had multiples (of the previous) versions of 17.5's in my pit box - Reedy M3, Motiv, and Fantom that I have been able to sell off and instead now I keep just 1ea of the newest versions from TSR. So instead of multiples, I now have one. I even made money on the whole thing and only worry about just one motor. I have done this with 17.5 and 21.5. I went from about 7 or 8 motors to just 2.

From the standpoint of using a Trackstar or similar costing brands, I understand your position.

I'm not a big fan of capping costs in most racing classes. For this simple reason, why would anyone see it necessary to eliminate a motor based on cost from 17.5, or even USGT when it's not a problem if someone can enter the class using an $800 chassis? Look, an $800 chassis is perfectly legal in USVTA, the most controlled of all classes. Certainly, has to make some racers using old Tamiya's or AE's scratch their head, huh? Many guys using older chassis' that are getting beat by Awesomatix chassis' are scratching their heads just as much as the guys with old motors vs ones with new motors. Right? But where is the uproar in this? There is a huge dollar difference in that scenario. Not so much with the motors.....

I say let this motor situation play out a bit more before making decisions about motors. Again, I have actually made money, cut down on the number of motors I have, and eliminated "which brand of motor" to use when I go race. I see it as a positive. Not all will, I understand that.
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Old 02-21-2017, 03:51 PM   #24
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...I think ROAR is in enough trouble as it is. Look at the Carpet Nats...they aren't getting the participation. Why is it that we see these independent races like MHIC, SnowBirds, Hudy Race, Indoor Carpet Nats, Full Throttle Champs, etc. getting huge participation compared to ROAR national events?
A lot of racers do not like excessive but necessary regulations. If it were not for ROAR and their rules, stock classes would not exist at these other races.

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What happened at snowbirds really doesn't have anything to do with ROAR. This is from snowbirds own rules on motors:

"We will have our own inductance/resistance minimums and have ranges for each motor winds/brands (based on what is available over-the-counter and what was sent to Roar/Tour for original approvals). Motors too low (what we feel are outliers) will not be allowed to race. These will be marked and held until event is over."
It is all to do with ROAR. Snowbirds used ROAR's resistance numbers. Birds or ROAR Nats, the same motors would have been DQed from competition.

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Originally Posted by ASM View Post
...With where Motiv came into the market at about $105, I'm not sure I would call the "cost of stock motors out of control" just yet. And for what it's worth, the standard $95 version of the TSR is an outstanding motor and in the hands of most racers out there, it's more than enough to power you to the win. If you believe that you MUST have "the one" version to win, you're kidding yourself.

Just my opinion.....
$105 IS the problem. Stock motors were the entry level motors and have morphed into the most expensive. Even at $90.00 they are way overpriced when compared to the past. They should not be more expensive than a modified motor.

The whole thing has turned upside down. The entry level classes cost the most and the Expert classes are the most economical.
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Old 02-21-2017, 04:02 PM   #25
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Well the max msrp of a "stock" motor needs to be lowered, thats a ROAR issue.
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Old 02-21-2017, 04:49 PM   #26
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Minimum resistance number for 17.5 could cure much of the disaster stock has become..
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Old 02-21-2017, 05:46 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
$105 IS the problem. Stock motors were the entry level motors and have morphed into the most expensive. Even at $90.00 they are way overpriced when compared to the past. They should not be more expensive than a modified motor.
This bolded part is debatable. Ignoring for a moment the "flavour of the month" tendency to replace motors (and inflation), a brushless motor requires a lot less maintenance and needs to be replaced a lot less frequently than the cheap brushed motors of old. Initial costs of entry are higher now, but long term costs are arguably lower (again if you don't keep upgrading to the hot new one).

But I agree with your sentiment that they shouldn't cost more than a modified motor.
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:11 PM   #28
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Do what they tried to do here in Australia, propose a spec single motor, say it's to promote fair racing

I won't divulge my opinion on it, as it gets me in trouble
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:24 PM   #29
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What is the problem with handout motors at big races? Why is this not a thing anymore?
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:48 PM   #30
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What is the problem with handout motors at big races? Why is this not a thing anymore?
+1 I remember racing stock classes a the Losi offroad races as well as the Roar Carpet Oval Nats where handout motors were issued. Even tires for the offroad stuff.. It evens up the playing field for sure.
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