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Old 02-25-2017, 09:12 AM   #136
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If the motors were exactly the same , the manufacturers would go nuts trying to make a lighter, yet more fragile car. And the battery manufacturers would go nuts as well. Even more so than today. My point is, it would still be a money war.
Exactly! If not motors, than it would be batteries or speed control or chassis. Racing is expensive, plain and simple. Club racing to me is about comraderies and friendship. I don't have to win to have fun. I have been out or racing for the past 12 years for family and career. I'm slowly getting back in and I still see some of the same guys that I use to race with years ago. They remember me and help me out with the new changes. Boy was I shocked to find out that the only thing I could use from my yesterday years was maybe a steering servo and the transponder! I find that the guys that win consistently are the guys that have practiced, natural talent, or lots of experience (years). These guys are just plain good. The one that wins is the one that make the least mistakes. The guys that stay at this game for the long haul already knows the expense so if people leave the hobby, I would bet the atmosphere of the club didn't suit them and cost becomes one of the justification to leave. I still don't have the time to practice and I certainly don't have natural talent but I'm getting better at getting out of the way of the fast guys but the friendships and comraderies are the priceless things I get out of racing. If I'm a pro, then it's my job and that's a whole different reason for racing. Let the manufacturers push the limit because the R&D learned will only bring us better products in the future. Those that have to win to have fun will spend and the the rest of can just have fun and can CHOSE to spend.
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Old 02-25-2017, 09:13 AM   #137
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If the motors were exactly the same , the manufacturers would go nuts trying to make a lighter, yet more fragile car. And the battery manufacturers would go nuts as well. Even more so than today. My point is, it would still be a money war.
I don't think any of that is an undesirable side effect.

We have weight limits to control er- weight. Doesn't matter how light the car is, you just add more weights.

For batteries, we have another very good control. Voltage. Already some manufacturers have tried to make batteries that can be overcharged and the rules have said, no.

As for internal resistance, I don't think we need to worry until we have batteries cooled to absolute zero, and then we can admit these knowing that there is nowhere to go.
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Old 02-25-2017, 09:38 AM   #138
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Batteries work better when they're warm. That's why there's a rule against external heating. That's also why everyone has an iCharger.
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Old 02-25-2017, 05:42 PM   #139
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Not everybody. I like my Graupner.This discussion has been going on for years.
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Old 02-25-2017, 07:56 PM   #140
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Batteries work better when they're warm. That's why there's a rule against external heating. That's also why everyone has an iCharger.
Really? I use a Venom Stronghold for racing and have a Graupner Polaron at home.

But I get your point. You won't see many with the bog stock Imax B6AC
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Old 02-25-2017, 08:14 PM   #141
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Lots of 40amp discharging+charging to boost performance...
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Old 02-25-2017, 08:27 PM   #142
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I'm so slack with my batteries, never storage charge, after they do a race they go in the box, charge them the night before, use 2 packs per class and between races I charge at 2c

Does it work? Well, I think so
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:20 AM   #143
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Ha. I doubt batteries work better when they're hot. And how would the charger heat them up anyway, short of using unreasonable charging currents? Do that, and I don't think they'll last you very long. Especially newer batteries, I have noticed they really don't like being handled carelessly and pushed hard.
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:43 AM   #144
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Ha. I doubt batteries work better when they're hot. And how would the charger heat them up anyway, short of using unreasonable charging currents? Do that, and I don't think they'll last you very long. Especially newer batteries, I have noticed they really don't like being handled carelessly and pushed hard.
Raising the temp lowers the IR. well known fact.

Charging at 40A will absolutely heat up a lipo.

What the top end ichargers allow you to do is cycle the batteries in a short period of time (charge at 40A discharge at 20A) - like under 15mins - do that a couple of times before your heat and you'll see a few extra degrees and a lower IR - more punch.

And yeah, you do reduce the life of th battery by doing it. Performance benefit is marginal at best.
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Old 02-26-2017, 05:14 AM   #145
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When lipos became the standard for us, some pro drivers tested them at different temperatures. The result for 25C lipos was 100F was the magic number. The big races suddenly had 300 heating pads on all the pit tables and nobody could tell when a lipo puffed on charge. ROAR stepped in and made heating pads illegal for r/c.
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Old 02-26-2017, 07:02 AM   #146
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Ha. I doubt batteries work better when they're hot. And how would the charger heat them up anyway, short of using unreasonable charging currents? Do that, and I don't think they'll last you very long. Especially newer batteries, I have noticed they really don't like being handled carelessly and pushed hard.
Ever try starting your car on a zero degree morning?
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Old 02-26-2017, 07:05 AM   #147
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Lots of 40amp discharging+charging to boost performance...
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When lipos became the standard for us, some pro drivers tested them at different temperatures. The result for 25C lipos was 100F was the magic number. The big races suddenly had 300 heating pads on all the pit tables and nobody could tell when a lipo puffed on charge. ROAR stepped in and made heating pads illegal for r/c.
High current discharging/high current charging warms up the battery internally, lowering the IR. More power, but yes you are shortening the lifespan of the battery.
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Old 02-26-2017, 07:52 AM   #148
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Ever try starting your car on a zero degree morning?
Yeah, we're not talking here about running our cars below freezing, are we? I know that chemistry needs some temperature to work, but did anyone actually check what is the optimal temperature for our batteries to work?

And it's not internal resistance decreasing, but the reaction speed that increases, which is perceived as a low(-er) internal resistance because you're using electrical parameters to measure it. Raise the temperature far enough and the reaction rate will drop. Keep raising it and you'll have an irreversible reaction (or a runaway reaction, a good time to run away - ha!).

My batteries (Muchmore run flat) have puffed up after a few cycles. I never abused them and only balance charged them, always balance discharge stored them. Less than one year later, very few races, puffed up. Waste of money. Similar things with Reedy, Orca HV and so on. Some survive, some die. Which to my mind says even buying top batteries is still a game of luck.
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:32 PM   #149
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Yeah, we're not talking here about running our cars below freezing, are we? I know that chemistry needs some temperature to work, but did anyone actually check what is the optimal temperature for our batteries to work?

And it's not internal resistance decreasing, but the reaction speed that increases, which is perceived as a low(-er) internal resistance because you're using electrical parameters to measure it. Raise the temperature far enough and the reaction rate will drop. Keep raising it and you'll have an irreversible reaction (or a runaway reaction, a good time to run away - ha!).

My batteries (Muchmore run flat) have puffed up after a few cycles. I never abused them and only balance charged them, always balance discharge stored them. Less than one year later, very few races, puffed up. Waste of money. Similar things with Reedy, Orca HV and so on. Some survive, some die. Which to my mind says even buying top batteries is still a game of luck.
This could be a result of the equipment being used to charge the batteries with.
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Old 02-26-2017, 04:50 PM   #150
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Default Stock motor ? LOL

Regardless of the endless numbers everyone is throwing out to either explain, justify or to diminish... just hearing the words "stock motor" makes me laugh anymore. All I can do is shake my head when the boutique motors show up and the mains are now split into $180 main and $80 main. LOL, wait I forgot to include shipping.
Oh well stock was fun while it lasted.
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