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Old 03-15-2017, 06:51 AM   #16
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Hi Marco,
I think I know what's going on, can you please try the short wheelbase in the front and long on the rear?
I did it. Shorter than possible in the front and longer in the rear. It helped a bit but not totally. Now the car feels good but no in fast corners.
To try a stiffer rear is not the way to go. I use hard Springs rear and in slow corners rear is not solid in corner exit, but in fast corner rear is granitic and front has no much steering.
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Old 03-15-2017, 07:16 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by maRRRco View Post
I did it. Shorter than possible in the front and longer in the rear. It helped a bit but not totally. Now the car feels good but no in fast corners.
To try a stiffer rear is not the way to go. I use hard Springs rear and in slow corners rear is not solid in corner exit, but in fast corner rear is granitic and front has no much steering.
Could try kit front wheelbase and short rear wheelbase.
I have also made a couple of suggestions in my previous post, near the bottom of the last page.

Also, what size track?
Is this carpet or asphalt?
Stock or modified?
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Old 03-15-2017, 08:39 AM   #18
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Did anyone mention the rear toe? I try to run as little toe in as possible.
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:02 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Could try kit front wheelbase and short rear wheelbase.
I have also made a couple of suggestions in my previous post, near the bottom of the last page.

Also, what size track?
Is this carpet or asphalt?
Stock or modified?
Exactly
Moving weight to rear will give more high-speed steering . looseing some initial . but I would fix that with short/low front links with 6°caster blocks.
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:03 AM   #20
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Did anyone mention the rear toe? I try to run as little toe in as possible.
Outdoor that's not a good idea. Makes it wander out of the corner more
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:38 AM   #21
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You said you have the shocks stood all the way up all around, correct? I'd try laying the shocks in and letting the car actually get into roll.
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:47 AM   #22
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Try on your left rear ARB sliding the ball link in approx. 3mm from the end and run the car to see if that is enough.
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Old 03-15-2017, 01:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Could try kit front wheelbase and short rear wheelbase.
I have also made a couple of suggestions in my previous post, near the bottom of the last page.

Also, what size track?
Is this carpet or asphalt?
Stock or modified?
That's a large, fast, nitro asphalt track. Modified class.
About wheelbase, someone said me short in the front and long in the rear. Now you and other user say me the contrary. In my opinion the weight should be transfer in the front not rear, because I need more grip in the front end. I mean weight transfer, not static weight.

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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
Exactly
Moving weight to rear will give more high-speed steering . looseing some initial . but I would fix that with short/low front links with 6°caster blocks.
Static weight or weight transfer? Are you sure?
I think is the contrary, so I always moved in that direction, adding weight (transfer) to the front.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hamann View Post
You said you have the shocks stood all the way up all around, correct? I'd try laying the shocks in and letting the car actually get into roll.
Yes, the shocks are in the second-last hole, so pretty vertical.
I did it to get more direct steering for chicanes.

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Originally Posted by massenb203 View Post
Try on your left rear ARB sliding the ball link in approx. 3mm from the end and run the car to see if that is enough.
So, do you mean a stiffer roll bar? Yes, this will improve steering, I'll try.
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maRRRco View Post
That's a large, fast, nitro asphalt track. Modified class.
About wheelbase, someone said me short in the front and long in the rear. Now you and other user say me the contrary. In my opinion the weight should be transfer in the front not rear, because I need more grip in the front end. I mean weight transfer, not static weight.
Correct, but by having the weight already at the front (shorter front wheelbase etc) it can't transfer as much, because it's already there.

Quote:
Static weight or weight transfer? Are you sure?
I think is the contrary, so I always moved in that direction, adding weight (transfer) to the front.
By adding weight to the rear (using shorter rear wheelbase) it should transfer more of it from the rear under braking.
You'll notice some team driver setups (mainly carpet) use short front & long rear wheelbase, but this is to make the car easier to drive, not maximise steering.
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:43 PM   #25
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Thanks Marco.
That's why I like to start tuning a car with 50:50 weight bias. I think there's more than one issue at hand particularly shocks and maybe geometry. Could you fill a setup sheet?
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:45 AM   #26
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Ok understood but I don't really need more weight to the front under breaking, I need that during acceleration few weight will transfer to the rear, so is better having it already in the front (short front wheelbase). Anyway I can tune this aspect with droop too.
I'll fill my actual setup soon.
Thanks.

p.s my setup
http://i63.tinypic.com/2d2ewlt.jpg

Last edited by maRRRco; 03-17-2017 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:26 PM   #27
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*fixed*
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Last edited by 30Tooth; 03-18-2017 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 03-17-2017, 02:23 AM   #28
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Marco,

If you're used to 8th IC, it's that irreplaceable rear overdriving and rotation feeling you're missing when you're mashing the throttle... doesn't work with EP DTM with 4 identical tires and symmetric driving ratios...
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:20 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maRRRco View Post
Hi guys this weekend I tried a new body, ltcr, with new setup settings. I used more straight steering rod so more ackermann effect according to xray manual. And more vertical shock. Now the car feels very responsive and direct with good corner entry and good steering in slow/medium speed corner but again understeers in fast corners. What I have to do? More lower roll center, soft spring? I don't know.
Sounds like you're nearly there now it's got a proper body on it. The things that still look unusual on your setup and warrant changing are:

Go to shorter rear camber link (outer hole on bulkhead). That's the setup used 99% of the time and should give more high-speed steering.

Go to outer hole on front steering arms (for the steering tie-rod). That's the setup used 100% of the time.

If you still need HS steering, you can try:
- Lay the shocks down a couple of holes all round. This will make it more aggressive at speed.
- Make the rear track width wider, and/or the front narrower.
- Mount the body or wing further forwards.
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:53 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Lonestar View Post
Marco,

If you're used to 8th IC, it's that irreplaceable rear overdriving and rotation feeling you're missing when you're mashing the throttle... doesn't work with EP DTM with 4 identical tires and symmetric driving ratios...
Yes, I know but my car is slower than other EP cars I've seen in my track. This is the point. I won't obtain the feeling of a nitro car with foam turns and tunable overdrive, but a sufficient amount of steering in fast corners.
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