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Old 01-22-2017, 02:11 PM   #31
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Qual Points...

Every round should count equal!!!!!


Not just the round that the track is the fastest. If you show up for round one and are a rocket it should matter....

If you fail to get your car on the track or quit because your not fastest that's on you.
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Old 01-22-2017, 02:15 PM   #32
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For 12th scale im in favor of qual points and fewer sets of tires allowed. The way it is everyone saves new sets for the end. Nothing wrong with rewarding a guy who is fast for the entire event.
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Old 01-22-2017, 02:35 PM   #33
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Let's just race. I'll run both systems. Different strategies for either spices things up once and a while. Nothing wrong with that.
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Old 01-22-2017, 03:47 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Ellis View Post
Sorry. Do you even race? Lol
I've never seen him race.
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Old 01-22-2017, 04:36 PM   #35
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The points thing in qualifying would only make sense to me if you also did the re-sorts on each round so you are driving with folks in the same skill set. A lot of times, I seem to get in a first round qualifier where I have bad traffic or I am the traffic lol. Neither is good for either driver. Constantly moving out of the way for someone only hurts those guys and having them in way kills the fast guys. I would imagine in a points based system where re-sorts didn't happen as a horrible thing for all.
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Old 01-22-2017, 06:43 PM   #36
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To answer some of the questions that people seem to have, yes this was a local event that ran qual points and Cheng felt the need to bring it out here on Rctech for all to see.

We have a local track that we setup in a National Guard Armory every week, the event was ran on this track. There is no sub-floor and the carpet is stored in an unheated garage here in WI (it's cold, really cold). We also set up a fresh layout for all of our big(er) races. Additionally, due to the fact that we run in a space we do not own, the facility was only open for 4-5hrs total before qualifying was to start.

Due to the facts mentioned above, we decided to try out qual points. Unsurprising to many people, it was a resounding success! There were a few complaints but overall it was well received by the racers and made for an interesting race when every race counted in some way.

One thing that's worth noting, I did not see a single incident of a slower driver not moving over for a faster driver due to them being worried about those tenths of a second affecting their qual point score. Overall everyone was polite and respectful as we have come to expect from our racers.

For clubs or races looking to try qual points I would highly encourage it. The setup we used was as follows:

No seeding, first heats sorted at random.
Resort after the first round using fastest 3 consecutive laps.
Resort after second round using fastest overall run.
Resort after the third round using fastest overall run.
Any tie in points would be broken by single fastest run.
Lowest two round scored were added together to get your point total.

Obviously some people will always be opposed to it, and that is just fine. At our track, due to our situation, the traction is constantly changing. At no point during an event do we have enough laps on the track that the grip truly levels off. Obviously this isn't always the case. For example I recently attended the Hudy race at Drew's track and it ran rocket round, as most races do. At that race the grip was incredibly consistent throughout qualifying, I feel like you had a good chance to get a TQ run in out of any round. However, this is not the reality for some tracks.

Tl;dr - Qual points worked out well for us and it may work for you.
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Old 01-22-2017, 06:58 PM   #37
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Kave i was just asking peoples thoughts on it didn't bring up your track people please post.
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Old 01-22-2017, 07:52 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Ellis View Post
Tq is the fastest guy there not the most consistent driver. Go race Offroad and be rewarded for being consistent.
Ok I'm fairly new to onroad and I have to say that with qualpoints with resort worked well if your fast then you should be fast every round I know that I get faster along with everyone else primarily because the track gets faster
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIITA View Post
Me too

Between the first round and fourth round this weekend, the track went .5 faster. Rocket round wouldn't make sense IMO. But some people are old school and just like the good ol days.
It definitely did traction comes up, you tweak your car and more track time on layout if a slow guy and a fast guy both become .5 faster how is it no part the track condition?🤔

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason cheng View Post
qual points are no good because you can't move over for anyone because every second counts in every round.
Everyone is up against the same thing first round after resort your heat is evened out and was more wrecks with someone trying to move over than just holding there line and being driven around I was both sides of this I'm sure others will verify

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Originally Posted by Drew Ellis View Post
Did you work on your car to get it better or did you leave it the same from the first round to the last. The screws on your car are meant to be turned and adjusted. But this again is coming from a old school racer so take it how you may.
Isn't that what everyracer does? Or do you just hope you have a good setup and will get faster with the next run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by massenb203 View Post
Here is my 2 cents. Qual points or rocket round have it pro and cons. IMO if you are a better and faster driver than the person in front of you go around him without expecting him to move out of your way. That way you both can continue racing with causing someone else to crash behind you. This races is a mock version of the real racing and you do not see them moving over for someone to pass.
Exactly unfortunately I had car issues and didn't make the last qualifier in which I had a good Car in practice prior to but if I happened to put one good run in and qualify above some of the others I still don't think I would have earned the spot I ended up in the heat I should have been in and then race to the front and bump to the next main in which case you would have earned it

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdmpastx View Post
The points thing in qualifying would only make sense to me if you also did the re-sorts on each round so you are driving with folks in the same skill set. A lot of times, I seem to get in a first round qualifier where I have bad traffic or I am the traffic lol. Neither is good for either driver. Constantly moving out of the way for someone only hurts those guys and having them in way kills the fast guys. I would imagine in a points based system where re-sorts didn't happen as a horrible thing for all.
The format worked great with the range of talent it still ended up I think the way it would have if done the other way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kave View Post
To answer some of the questions that people seem to have, yes this was a local event that ran qual points and Cheng felt the need to bring it out here on Rctech for all to see.

We have a local track that we setup in a National Guard Armory every week, the event was ran on this track. There is no sub-floor and the carpet is stored in an unheated garage here in WI (it's cold, really cold). We also set up a fresh layout for all of our big(er) races. Additionally, due to the fact that we run in a space we do not own, the facility was only open for 4-5hrs total before qualifying was to start.

Due to the facts mentioned above, we decided to try out qual points. Unsurprising to many people, it was a resounding success! There were a few complaints but overall it was well received by the racers and made for an interesting race when every race counted in some way.

One thing that's worth noting, I did not see a single incident of a slower driver not moving over for a faster driver due to them being worried about those tenths of a second affecting their qual point score. Overall everyone was polite and respectful as we have come to expect from our racers.

For clubs or races looking to try qual points I would highly encourage it. The setup we used was as follows:

No seeding, first heats sorted at random.
Resort after the first round using fastest 3 consecutive laps.
Resort after second round using fastest overall run.
Resort after the third round using fastest overall run.
Any tie in points would be broken by single fastest run.
Lowest two round scored were added together to get your point total.

Obviously some people will always be opposed to it, and that is just fine. At our track, due to our situation, the traction is constantly changing. At no point during an event do we have enough laps on the track that the grip truly levels off. Obviously this isn't always the case. For example I recently attended the Hudy race at Drew's track and it ran rocket round, as most races do. At that race the grip was incredibly consistent throughout qualifying, I feel like you had a good chance to get a TQ run in out of any round. However, this is not the reality for some tracks.

Tl;dr - Qual points worked out well for us and it may work for you.
Worked great was great event and I think most were happy with how things went we all know you can't please everyone
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Old 01-22-2017, 08:41 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kave View Post
To answer some of the questions that people seem to have, yes this was a local event that ran qual points and Cheng felt the need to bring it out here on Rctech for all to see.

We have a local track that we setup in a National Guard Armory every week, the event was ran on this track. There is no sub-floor and the carpet is stored in an unheated garage here in WI (it's cold, really cold). We also set up a fresh layout for all of our big(er) races. Additionally, due to the fact that we run in a space we do not own, the facility was only open for 4-5hrs total before qualifying was to start.

Due to the facts mentioned above, we decided to try out qual points. Unsurprising to many people, it was a resounding success! There were a few complaints but overall it was well received by the racers and made for an interesting race when every race counted in some way.

One thing that's worth noting, I did not see a single incident of a slower driver not moving over for a faster driver due to them being worried about those tenths of a second affecting their qual point score. Overall everyone was polite and respectful as we have come to expect from our racers.

For clubs or races looking to try qual points I would highly encourage it. The setup we used was as follows:

No seeding, first heats sorted at random.
Resort after the first round using fastest 3 consecutive laps.
Resort after second round using fastest overall run.
Resort after the third round using fastest overall run.
Any tie in points would be broken by single fastest run.
Lowest two round scored were added together to get your point total.

Obviously some people will always be opposed to it, and that is just fine. At our track, due to our situation, the traction is constantly changing. At no point during an event do we have enough laps on the track that the grip truly levels off. Obviously this isn't always the case. For example I recently attended the Hudy race at Drew's track and it ran rocket round, as most races do. At that race the grip was incredibly consistent throughout qualifying, I feel like you had a good chance to get a TQ run in out of any round. However, this is not the reality for some tracks.

Tl;dr - Qual points worked out well for us and it may work for you.
So this right here is understandable. Sometimes what works at big races will not work for other events. Specially for your event with having little time on the track and it not being permanent. With the black carpet I have seen the track level off around 12000 laps and usually at a big race that is done within the first day. For big races we have been down this road with qual points and there are a lot of reason why they went away from it. And like you said there are some pluses with it also. Me personally am a racer and will race whatever it is qual points or rocket rounds. Have done good at both type of events and done crappy at both also. Qual points not only make you have to drive consistent but also have your car prep and ready. All racers have issues from time to time. Rocket rounds allow you to have issues and blow out but still have a chance on making the show. Qual points do not do this. I also find myself in qual points settling for a spot in the main instead of pushing for tq. I feel that you have to drive more safe then you would in rocket rounds. And we all have been at events where it's seems we have nothing but problems the first three quals then finally get it toghther the last round and put in a good run. If you find you self in that situation with qual points your race is over. I'm not saying what you guys did is wrong and I'm all for race organizers doing what best for there event.
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Old 01-22-2017, 08:47 PM   #40
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Montana Max

Yes I hope that's what all racers do. But yes there are some that let the track come to them. If you show up to a big event and the first time on the track your car is traction rolling, that problem is only going to get worst. If you show up and the first time out your car is pushy and loose then the track may come to you. My point asking john if he worked on his car, which I know he does. Was if the track was only changing .5 tenths is it the track or are you getting a better setup for the track. I think we can say both of the two. You get better and so does the track.
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Old 01-22-2017, 08:57 PM   #41
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Round by Round Points qualifying in both on and off road is pretty much international standard now. Why do something different? We've run this format of qualifying for many many years and it works very well. The only time we consider changing to FTD format is if there is a dodgy weather forecast which would make round by Round Points qualifying unfair as there won't be a guarantee that everyone will get clear rounds.
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:20 PM   #42
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Round by Round Points qualifying in both on and off road is pretty much international standard now. Why do something different? We've run this format of qualifying for many many years and it works very well. The only time we consider changing to FTD format is if there is a dodgy weather forecast which would make round by Round Points qualifying unfair as there won't be a guarantee that everyone will get clear rounds.
Yes on asphalt this is the case for onroad but not sure what races you are talking about. Every carpet race in the last few years has been rocket round. Events like worlds they do qual points but this is also ran on asphalt. IIC, snowbirds, roar carpet nats and ets is not standard qual points.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:23 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Drew Ellis View Post
Our you guys for real. Or is this a joke? The carpet changes from round to round. No carpet I have ran on has. Almost ever race this year was re tqed in the last run. Please stop this crap and just race. Qual points are for Offroad races where the track changes a bunch. Onroad black carpet only get faster the more we run on it. Qual points would do nothing. Rocket rounds are for men that want to go fast.

Thanks,
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If you're going to a race for multiple days, are you happy that only 1 race and the main matter? If you're the fastest MF'r in the building, why cant you back up that fastest Rocket round?
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:56 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Ellis View Post
Yes on asphalt this is the case for onroad but not sure what races you are talking about. Every carpet race in the last few years has been rocket round. Events like worlds they do qual points but this is also ran on asphalt. IIC, snowbirds, roar carpet nats and ets is not standard qual points.
Ah Drew that last time i checked ETS is Qual points whether run on Carpet or Asphalt. Has been for many years.

USA racing is one of the last forms of on-road 10th and 12th electric racing that has not switched for big events. Boylan and Scotty have not switched because it's been the norm. We all resist change. I'm sure if racers push the issue, like in this forum, they will change.

Look at Stock and Super Stock at Snowbirds this year. Racers helped make the happen.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:01 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Race19s View Post
If you're going to a race for multiple days, are you happy that only 1 race and the main matter? If you're the fastest MF'r in the building, why cant you back up that fastest Rocket round?
If qual points are so great, then why is there a throw out? If you really want qual points, all rounds should count or throw the best AND worst runs out. This throwing out of a bad round does away with the qual point philosophy and in my opinion "consistency" has not been rewarded. In the end, I race and accept whatever the director says, lol.
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