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Old 06-02-2017, 11:21 AM   #121
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@wtcc: First, congratulations on your work! Nicely thought and executed. Now sorry to be the bearer of bad news I've been running your aero configuration on the program and there's some flaws, not your fault though.
Main issue is that the venturis aren't well fed nor the air extracted correctly. The front wheels cover the entrance and the rear wheels block the exit. I'm sorry to disappoint you but at least I can offer you a solution. Transform the current bottom into this, as is used in most GT cars, racers or not. Changes would be the deleting of the venturis, flattening the bottom but using dams to direct flow away from the tires into the centre of the bottom, then use rake and a diffuser to suck air from beneath.
Thanks for your input! I am sorry for letting this thread down, but real life has my attention now (job and house ... and Superbike and BMW ). I hope in July or August I can find enough time to build a good shaped floor. I also switched to a club with a more fast and flowing track. I will be back
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Old 06-02-2017, 04:06 PM   #122
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This... is so getting banned.

And that's beautiful work. Don't stop :-)
Hope no bans are handed out, the bodyshells aren't for sale but I'm trying to get them on race tracks anyway. If you want one to test thoroughly I would be glad to provide it.

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Thanks for your input! I am sorry for letting this thread down, but real life has my attention now (job and house ... and Superbike and BMW ). I hope in July or August I can find enough time to build a good shaped floor. I also switched to a club with a more fast and flowing track. I will be back
No problem, don't be sorry your work will inspire others

If not asking too much, could you add some pics of your bitty410 bodyshell, level at middle height so I can see the contour and lines?

These will suffice. Compare your amazing painted bodyshell to the real deal

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Last edited by 30Tooth; 06-02-2017 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 06-04-2017, 04:57 AM   #123
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The body is already a little used
But I have two pictures from the side in the wrong angle as the body was still untouched



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Old 06-04-2017, 03:27 PM   #124
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Good enough, thanks for your cooperation

So many wasted opportunities to have good aero! It isn't impossible, it's even basic stuff one should know before designing a racing bodyshell. Here is my input hope someone understands what I'm trying to say.

Shame about the Ascari...suddenly isn't mentioned anywhere and never gained traction. Performance was bad? The "high downforce wing" was recommended and the body said to be one for high grip tracks.

How funny, this is my intention with some small tricks into it
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Old 06-05-2017, 12:30 AM   #125
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I for sure haven't understand the main concept of your body project, yet.
Just let me write down a few of my thoughts with scale bodies vs. performance shells.
1:1 cars aero is looking for reduced drag as main target. RC shells for downforce, balance and handling characteristics. So the "great wall" would be a drag catastrophe on an actual car, but somehow works very well on our overpowered toycars where cornerspeed is king.
Now scale SuperGT or DTM shells should be the best of two worlds: reduced drag and downforce. And they work pretty well on TT02s, but lack of overall performance on pro chassis. These chassis love low light high downforce bodies and would be even better with 1/12 shaped shells (Lola).
I have a friend who really loved the Ascari shell and he tried to make it work without success. It is an OK shell but can't compete against the Pf Mazda or M410.rr
So after experiencing all this I think focussing on downforce and high grip handling characteristics should be the way to go. A path that seems to be strongly different from 1:1 aero and with new shapes as result.
Is this what you are searching for? What did I miss?
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Old 06-05-2017, 05:38 AM   #126
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A good example of both ends of the spectrum are land speed record cars and track cars. Drag is bad for both but it is a major issue when you sacrifice shape for downforce, you need more horsepower. The Great Wall™ is bad, increases drag and nullifies the effect of the rear wing. That's why we have to run a rear air dam instead of the wing. Correcting some "mistakes" would provide more downforce while having less or equal drag (efficient L/D ratio).
Thanks for the feedback, I saw one issue with the body and it's easily corrected, if your friend still has it I will PM you a fix or use that example on this thread if it's OK with you.
I'm just saying that there's too much drag for the downforce generated and that there's still some downforce to be had with current designs. Focusing on efficiency not revolutionary shapes
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:21 AM   #127
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Looking forward to your work results and how you guide the air on your shell!

Now for the Ascari body I would be happy if you share how you made it work. I have one laying around (from the Bittydesign contest) and would not drive it. If I remember correct it was easy to drive but misses steering...
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:26 AM   #128
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There's a new protoform body MS7 being tested that looks to be a bit of a game changer. Different front splitter and front canards molded in.
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Old 06-05-2017, 02:31 PM   #129
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I've really enjoyed watching this thread over the past few months. That tray and underbody that WTCC scratch built looks really fantastic (HIGH5!!!). I have always wondered if that kind of concept could work to effectively increase the downforce by simply cleaning up the airflow under our typically messy/nonexistent floors...

I'd like to see exploration of some molded rear wings for electric TC racing. I think there's a lot of potential in what some racers are designing and 3D printing on their own, such as this example-

https://www.shapeways.com/product/Q7...ionId=60670571
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Old 06-05-2017, 02:39 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by wtcc View Post
Looking forward to your work results and how you guide the air on your shell!

Now for the Ascari body I would be happy if you share how you made it work. I have one laying around (from the Bittydesign contest) and would not drive it. If I remember correct it was easy to drive but misses steering...
Just a sec while I upload some software runs so you can compare with previous ones.

VS

About the Ascari I didn't buy one unfortunately, if you please could take some pics so I can see the whole body that would be super.

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There's a new protoform body MS7 being tested that looks to be a bit of a game changer. Different front splitter and front canards molded in.


The splitter is regulated, no more than 10mm and that looks enormous. About the canards seem small, other than that no noticeable features.

@J. Filipow, looks great! If I could design something it would be front and rear diffusers and rear wings.
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Old 06-06-2017, 04:23 PM   #131
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Class listen up, since yesterday I've been trying some changes and with an airfoil shaped wing half the chord of the standard air dam positioned roughly on the same place and height of the standard part on the standard bodyshell the results are almost as good as my bodyshell with the cut standard air dam. Impressive! Now my bodyshell with that same wing, placed where the air dam makes no change or a negligible one, funny. Raising the wing provides a small increase of downforce and less drag, adding a rear boot lip spoiler increases downforce a small amount and a small increase in drag. A similar airfoil and lip spoiler in the standard body, raised to allowable maximum and at a similar location to my bodyshell design is down on downforce, has more drag and there's more airflow separation before the wing (turbulent air hits the wing).

Ten minutes yesterday to make the prototype and half an hour to fine tune two designs were well spent time. And the current bodyshell which more closely resembles my idealized design is...
*drum rolls*
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:25 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth View Post
Class listen up, since yesterday I've been trying some changes and with an airfoil shaped wing half the chord of the standard air dam positioned roughly on the same place and height of the standard part on the standard bodyshell the results are almost as good as my bodyshell with the cut standard air dam. Impressive! Now my bodyshell with that same wing, placed where the air dam makes no change or a negligible one, funny. Raising the wing provides a small increase of downforce and less drag, adding a rear boot lip spoiler increases downforce a small amount and a small increase in drag. A similar airfoil and lip spoiler in the standard body, raised to allowable maximum and at a similar location to my bodyshell design is down on downforce, has more drag and there's more airflow separation before the wing (turbulent air hits the wing).

Ten minutes yesterday to make the prototype and half an hour to fine tune two designs were well spent time. And the current bodyshell which more closely resembles my idealized design is...
*drum rolls*

I tried this exact body last weekend, but did something different with the rear wing. I cut out the rear lip of the wing so it was only 10 mm high, leaving the side plates untrimmed. How would that fit into your airflow model? My intent was to reduce straightline drag and use mechanical obtain rear grip. My runs with this body were pretty decent as I set fastest lap with less horseypower than the others. Car really rotated and didn't put me in a bad place in the corners. So were my assumptions on target or did I just get lucky?
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:32 AM   #133
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I tried this exact body last weekend, but did something different with the rear wing. I cut out the rear lip of the wing so it was only 10 mm high, leaving the side plates untrimmed. How would that fit into your airflow model? My intent was to reduce straightline drag and use mechanical obtain rear grip. My runs with this body were pretty decent as I set fastest lap with less horseypower than the others. Car really rotated and didn't put me in a bad place in the corners. So were my assumptions on target or did I just get lucky?
Sorry for misunderstanding! Side plates are to be untouched if you follow the rules. If you wanted less drag I advise to run really small chord wings, trim the front straight part 5mm or so and try again, you want just a small leading edge from the curved section. There's two simulations on page 1of a low long wing versus a tall short wing, later this day will do more wing configurations.

Done more simulations and the upper half bodyshell shape is 99% done, the lower should be around 90% as the rear "diffuser" will need more testing. Having more thoughts about making a 3D printed wing, if I can't get the lexan wing right. Shape of the front end is 90% too so profile is going pretty well.

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Old 06-07-2017, 07:29 AM   #134
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Got lucky basically haha. The end plates purpose is to prevent air spillage from the sides. It worked right for you so no harm done ,if you wanted less drag I advise to run really small chord wings, trim the front part 5mm or so and try again. There's two simulations on page 2 if not mistaken of a low long wing versus a tall short wing, later this day will do more wing configurations.

I picked this method for tuning as a change in the size of the wicker bill. I have watched Penske make this sort of change for over 20 years at IMS. They seem to do pretty well there.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:20 PM   #135
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I picked this method for tuning as a change in the size of the wicker bill. I have watched Penske make this sort of change for over 20 years at IMS. They seem to do pretty well there.
No problem with it, just messing with you

Oh sorry I misunderstood you!
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