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Old 12-08-2016, 08:00 AM   #121
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So, 21.5 is the new stock?
I would say: "another stock"
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:20 AM   #122
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Not specifically directed at someone specially you/your kid didn't you read above that people ran their equipment in the brink of failure because "performance edge"? If you aren't one of those persons then great, the stuff lasts more and brings you hardware even better. I don't need that edge too, my electric setup is from 4 years ago and I still have fun at the track, but if it' cheaper doesn't it mean more can do it or for longer time?

Were you around in the brushed era? I was and cutting comms to almost nothing and new brushes every X time on track and special oils and voodoo and zappers this and new cells with a increase of 0.00001 in voltage. With BL/Lipo we got rid off that.
No we wasn't call out by any means . I just simply took it to heart when people say the ones winning are..... Cause I know that's just not the case in usgt(only class currently running a 21.5)
As far as brushed days I was there (started racing in 94) as you said all that is over with .
For anyone thinking (not that you are ) he had the best of something else to gain a edge to win every usgt race he enters , he ,we swapped the unicorn R1 packs for cheap nano-tech $48 packs to use in Cleveland.
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:22 AM   #123
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So in the beginning 13.5 was stock, same as 27t. And then it was considered to fast and 17.5 was brought in as stock... Now we need to keep going down more to 21.5 and possibly 25.5....what's next 30.5 is the new stock?...

I'm going to Baby's R Us and pick up some items. Who is coming with me... Cause Im sure I'll need an extra set of hands and a U-haul to carry all the cry baby stuff to make all the whining stop. Hope they got belts too... I'm old school
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:25 AM   #124
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I help run a local track here in central Texas & my point of veiw is that we're not wanting slow the cars down as much as make racing better across the board for our racers. Trust me every time I bring up slowing the class down I'm meet with resistance. But I push forward with new rules for one main reason....

I want all my racers finishing races. I watch a class over a year or so & when I see half the field dropping out (car breakage) and the driver seems overwhelmed I slow the class down. They always complain that's it's to slow at first but once they run it and they see that is fun having all 10 cars finishing & finishing on the same lap they are happy with the change. If they want speed I tell them to run a faster class. We offer mod at our track for those guys.

That's what work for us at our track.

Just one point of view from a track tech guy.
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:29 AM   #125
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:43 AM   #126
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So in the beginning 13.5 was stock, same as 27t. And then it was considered to fast and 17.5 was brought in as stock... Now we need to keep going down more to 21.5 and possibly 25.5....what's next 30.5 is the new stock?
17.5T brushless was originally presented as the equivalent to 27T brushed. I have never seen any reference to 13.5 being the equivalent.

This conversation is caused by the increase in power of brushless motors and LiPo batteries over the years. A 21.5T brushless on LiPo is now far beyond the power of a 27T brushed on NiCad.

The goal is to keep the power of a "stock" motor/battery, whatever it will be, the same as what it was when the class first started. No one is saying we want to have less power than what "stock" was. We aren't trying to "slow the cars down" so much as trying to maintain the status quo.
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:48 AM   #127
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17.5T brushless was originally presented as the equivalent to 27T brushed. I have never seen any reference to 13.5 being the equivalent.
In the very beginning before the decision was made, most racers I know said 13.5 was the equivalent of 27 turn, and 10.5 was the equivalent of 19 turn. Once the decision was 17.5/13.5, they were disappointed. However that appears to have been the correct decision.
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:51 AM   #128
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Yes the first yr brushless was aloud the 13.5 was the advertised equivalent to 27t stock . Think it was oval tat first did it
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:55 AM   #129
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No we wasn't call out by any means . I just simply took it to heart when people say the ones winning are..... Cause I know that's just not the case in usgt(only class currently running a 21.5)
As far as brushed days I was there (started racing in 94) as you said all that is over with .
For anyone thinking (not that you are ) he had the best of something else to gain a edge to win every usgt race he enters , he ,we swapped the unicorn R1 packs for cheap nano-tech $48 packs to use in Cleveland.
I now know why you quoted me, you took it wrong what I said. When I said I don't care I meant that, not singling sponsored or not. I meant that I don't want to keep sponsored drivers out of slower classes.
I just want to keep costs from going out of control. Understood?

Correct 13.5 was Stock for a while.
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Old 12-08-2016, 09:06 AM   #130
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Okay first thing, I've said this before, I'll say it again. There is no stock. There never has been. There never will be. Because stock would mean you go to the hobby counter, buy a motor, take it out of the package, and put it in your car. You cannot do anything to that motor. No timing adjustments, no spacers, and no unicorns. If the rules say you can change even the smallest thing, it is no longer a stock motor. It may have the stock specs, but it is no longer "as it came from the factory."

Now that said, basing classes on motor specs is fine, and necessary. So here's my question. It is my experience that the faster the motor is, the less likely someone is going to "cheat" with that motor. No matter what track, there's only so fast you can go. The lap time comparisons prove that. Sure, the faster classes are not that much faster, but that's because they can't use all the power they have. 17.5 may be a point and shoot class, but 13.5 you need to worry about braking zones and such. If you're not using full throttle, you're not using all your motor.

So I don't get why 21.5 should be the "new stock." Leave it 17.5 and let that class be the "if you wanna race, race here" class. Let USGT remain as the "I still wanna race, but I don't wanna go crazy" class.

If you force racers down from 17.5 to 21.5, you're going to force lower driver into even slower classes, and possibly right out of the hobby.
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Old 12-08-2016, 09:20 AM   #131
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In the very beginning before the decision was made, most racers I know said 13.5 was the equivalent of 27 turn, and 10.5 was the equivalent of 19 turn. Once the decision was 17.5/13.5, they were disappointed. However that appears to have been the correct decision.
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Yes the first yr brushless was aloud the 13.5 was the advertised equivalent to 27t stock . Think it was oval tat first did it
Thanks for the correction, guys. I don't really pay much attention to oval, though I do know they were the first adopters.

My recollection is of the Novak ads, which I believe gave 17.5T as the 27T equivalent. But my memory could be lacking on that, too.
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Old 12-08-2016, 09:29 AM   #132
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No problem.

My last reply onbthis type of threads, instead of specing a turn which has some play on the overall power factor spec racer fun instead. USGT is attracting sponsored drivers because it has good racing, possibly better than other more serious sport oriented classes. What is wrong with that? To me nothing, I love USGT and the more the merrier, let's go make laps together and wear rubber not ourselves.
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Old 12-08-2016, 09:36 AM   #133
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Even Hudy has burned motors on the ETS before they could measure the FDR. With the limited FDR it should be impossible to burn motors but he did.
Lucky he has a factory of spares.

But it would be interesting to know how he did it.

Because that would be quite an achievement with locked timing motors, no boost ESC and limited FDR.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:05 AM   #134
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Lucky he has a factory of spares.

But it would be interesting to know how he did it.

Because that would be quite an achievement with locked timing motors, no boost ESC and limited FDR.
Pulley and belt change...
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:10 AM   #135
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Yeah, so different FDR, so your comment doesn't change my point.
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