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Old 12-07-2016, 12:59 PM   #91
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Maybe banning any kind of sponsored driver should be the "new stock".
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:08 PM   #92
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As for sponsored drivers . I am but not cause of my skill level but because of my son's but he enjoys racing usgt not cause of winning either but because racing is tight and every little mistake costs you more than say 17.5 tc
But as said if theirs no pro fast guys in your class your possibly missing something cause theirs nothing to use as a bench mark ,so we think it can't get any faster so why work on our stuff to be faster . It happens to all of us then at some point someone sponsored comes in and runs and bam we see our mastakes or atleast notice theirs more to shoot for to be faster.
I don't feel theirs anything wrong with sponsored pro drivers running slower classes,as long as it's their choice to do so .
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:16 PM   #93
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okay before we go any further....USGT is not a beginner/amateur class...I have no idea who put this in racers head....it never was and it never will be, and as a matter of fact neither is USVTA....they are racing classes...PERIOD!...no label needed....

novice amateur beginner can be any class your track wants it to be....but don't label a slower class, when both classes were started by very...hummm, THE FAST GUYS at the track. You can have a amateur class like 17.5 TC, which I raced at Snowbirds(TQ/Win) and it wasn't a dang thing slow about it...but you can also have Jr VTA like at Thunder and kids 16 and under can get in, and some very inexperience adults and parents.

so back to this sponsored stuff....Well speaking for myself, AE/Reedy nor Novak has ever hand selected me any product that average Joe couldn't get. So if I beat you, it had nothing to do with being sponsored.....and one more, if your pockets are deep, you can get whatever, whenever ,from whoever....now what do you do?
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:27 PM   #94
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I have runned several stock classes and I always wondered how it comes that some people can drive twice as fast. My idea of stock is get a motor and drop it in the car. Others buy 10 motors, take them appard and select all the parts to get the best. With some tweaking (removing some edges to get more timing) here and there they push up the performance a lot.

Then if rules say not to carge more than 2C people do 5C or even more to heat the battery from the inside to get a lower resistance and so the list goes on... That is the difference between a starting/hobby driver against an full experienced driver knowing all the tricks. So yes, handout motors which are sealed with a locked endbell makes it a lot better.....
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Old 12-07-2016, 02:04 PM   #95
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Then if rules say not to carge more than 2C people do 5C or even more to heat the battery from the inside to get a lower resistance and so the list goes on...
15 minute impound before a race would solve that nicely...
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Old 12-07-2016, 02:09 PM   #96
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The issue is trying to equate a certain motor to a certain skill set.

Not gonna happen. Fast guy always wins until he is out skilled. Skill is formed in experience. Experience comes from practice of laps and setup.

Exclude everyone faster than you, gets free stuff or can out spend you.

Not gonna happen. The whole hobby segment is too small to tell anyone you can't play.

This whole perception of "Stock" is way off. All motors are stock to the definition of the word. They are made and packaged as retail "Stock". When the word was first used such as "Stock Car", you literally bought the showroom model and made it race ready. A 426 Hemi was a Stock motor. Modified was the special stuff you had to go to a custom shop for. Now all the two words mean are the same, specification (spec). That's why we spec the class by motor.

We classify racers by:

Pro - someone pays them to race.
Sponsored - Someone gives them equipment to race.
Sportsmen - Old guys who know how to race and don't hack each other.
Stock - everyone else with experience racing.
Novice - novice.

I think we're all just racers trying hard to find a win, but with different tastes for equipment. We come in all shapes, sizes and ages.

So to answer the original question:

21.5 will never and always be the new stock if that's what the majority wants.
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Old 12-07-2016, 02:10 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
okay before we go any further....USGT is not a beginner/amateur class...I have no idea who put this in racers head....it never was and it never will be, and as a matter of fact neither is USVTA....they are racing classes...PERIOD!...no label needed....

novice amateur beginner can be any class your track wants it to be....but don't label a slower class, when both classes were started by very...hummm, THE FAST GUYS at the track. You can have a amateur class like 17.5 TC, which I raced at Snowbirds(TQ/Win) and it wasn't a dang thing slow about it...but you can also have Jr VTA like at Thunder and kids 16 and under can get in, and some very inexperience adults and parents.

so back to this sponsored stuff....Well speaking for myself, AE/Reedy nor Novak has ever hand selected me any product that average Joe couldn't get. So if I beat you, it had nothing to do with being sponsored.....and one more, if your pockets are deep, you can get whatever, whenever ,from whoever....now what do you do?
Not to mention there are plenty of guys that are talented enough for sponsorship but don't want to deal with the headache of playing product rep for a small discount. What to do with them? Not easy to just "ban the sponsored drivers" nor has anyone addressed the number of people that have been supporting this hobby forever that may just say "screw it" if that happens. For a hobby that apparently is hurting for numbers this seems like a risky bet. Sponsored drivers in USGT means nothing to me. I still have to run my own race.
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Old 12-07-2016, 02:12 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
I have runned several stock classes and I always wondered how it comes that some people can drive twice as fast. My idea of stock is get a motor and drop it in the car. Others buy 10 motors, take them appard and select all the parts to get the best. With some tweaking (removing some edges to get more timing) here and there they push up the performance a lot.

Then if rules say not to carge more than 2C people do 5C or even more to heat the battery from the inside to get a lower resistance and so the list goes on... That is the difference between a starting/hobby driver against an full experienced driver knowing all the tricks. So yes, handout motors which are sealed with a locked endbell makes it a lot better.....
If you run a battery back to back it does the same thing. You'll see racers get faster and faster the more they run a pack through the day. Especially with old batteries.
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Old 12-07-2016, 02:18 PM   #99
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I think some of the sponsored/pro drivers are missing the point about mixing in with intermediate and old/ new drivers.
The reality is that most of our tracks are narrow one line tracks and driving too far off the race line picks up all the marbles, paint chips and stray body clips. Running 17.5 TC and 1/12 scale, everybody knows they are supposed to move over when a fast guys comes up. This is correct and I pride myself on letting anybody who catches me with decent speed to pass cleanly. The problem I have is fast/pro drivers who go into slower classes where they can lap club racers every 3 or 4 laps and they bitch and scream like little babies if they have to wait 1 or 2 corners before someone lets them by. This also means the guys who pull over have to drive a full lap on that slippery mess before the tires clean up again. Tracks who vacuum often aren't quite as bad, but they are rare.
I realize that USGT wasn't created as a new driver class. I was on here when the original idea was discussed. The biggest draw was being able to race a body that wasn't a Mazda speed 6. In my mind all TC bodies are a speed 6.
The 21.5 motor however was to keep pro drivers out of USGT and more importantly keep average drivers out of the way of pro drivers in 17.5 TC who are preparing for specific events like Snow Birds, Vegas, the Gate etc.

Keep in mind that off-road carpet and turf doesn't have the same loss of traction when you let someone pass. Mini-pins clean up really fast and still have mechanical grip. So don't whine if mid level drivers leave VTA and USGT after being run out of all the slower classes and buy 2wd buggies to run on turf.
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Old 12-07-2016, 03:25 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
okay before we go any further....USGT is not a beginner/amateur class...I have no idea who put this in racers head....it never was and it never will be, and as a matter of fact neither is USVTA....they are racing classes...PERIOD!...no label needed....

novice amateur beginner can be any class your track wants it to be....but don't label a slower class, when both classes were started by very...hummm, THE FAST GUYS at the track. You can have a amateur class like 17.5 TC, which I raced at Snowbirds(TQ/Win) and it wasn't a dang thing slow about it...but you can also have Jr VTA like at Thunder and kids 16 and under can get in, and some very inexperience adults and parents.

so back to this sponsored stuff....Well speaking for myself, AE/Reedy nor Novak has ever hand selected me any product that average Joe couldn't get. So if I beat you, it had nothing to do with being sponsored.....and one more, if your pockets are deep, you can get whatever, whenever ,from whoever....now what do you do?
While I agree whole heartily, to what you are saying, I really do, if a new comer comes to your track and says, I want to get into racing, what class are you going to recommend?

Are you going to recommend 17.5T TC? Mod?
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Old 12-07-2016, 03:26 PM   #101
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wrong again...the 21.5 motor was used cause most of the guys running the older VTA class had 21.5's...that's why the rules for USGT was more on what people was complaining about in VTA, blinky ROAR this and that, no Novak motor and esc...so USGT comes in and allows the guys to not have to accept the strict rules of VTA, run a ROAR esc,motor, and a rubber tire with tread and some cool azz body that you like... much like RCGT before, it was fast, and the faster guys loved it...17.5 boosted...man those were the days...but once again its an issue cause for some reason racers refused to accept the class for what it is....Ive been here since the beginning and I race USVTA classes cause of the enjoyment, did Mod TC tickle my tummy at the USIC...HELL YEAH....but Im a USVTA guy, and always will be....oh year when AE drops a F1 car, Ill run that too...slow booty 25.5 motors and all...but I will continue to support the USVTA
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Old 12-07-2016, 03:39 PM   #102
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While I agree whole heartily, to what you are saying, I really do, if a new comer comes to your track and says, I want to get into racing, what class are you going to recommend?

Are you going to recommend 17.5T TC? Mod?
I always point people to VTA, that's because its my favorite class at the track.
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Old 12-07-2016, 03:42 PM   #103
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wrong again...the 21.5 motor was used cause most of the guys running the older VTA class had 21.5's...that's why the rules for USGT was more on what people was complaining about in VTA, blinky ROAR this and that, no Novak motor and esc...so USGT comes in and allows the guys to not have to accept the strict rules of VTA, run a ROAR esc,motor, and a rubber tire with tread and some cool azz body that you like... much like RCGT before, it was fast, and the faster guys loved it...17.5 boosted...man those were the days...but once again its an issue cause for some reason racers refused to accept the class for what it is....Ive been here since the beginning and I race USVTA classes cause of the enjoyment, did Mod TC tickle my tummy at the USIC...HELL YEAH....but Im a USVTA guy, and always will be....oh year when AE drops a F1 car, Ill run that too...slow booty 25.5 motors and all...but I will continue to support the USVTA
well get your slow booty out and get another F1 to run. ....

and where are the Senior classes at anymore.... Its getting real hard looking across a large driver stand across a large track at a 10th scale anything with bifocals goings 25-30mph around a corner I'm just fractions of an inch from hero to zero. also getting tired of getting beat by all these kids. I WANT A SENIOR CLASS OF RUN WHAT YA BRUNG.
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Old 12-07-2016, 03:50 PM   #104
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well get your slow booty out and get another F1 to run. ....

and where are the Senior classes at anymore.... Its getting real hard looking across a large driver stand across a large track at a 10th scale anything with bifocals goings 25-30mph around a corner I'm just fractions of an inch from hero to zero. also getting tired of getting beat by all these kids. I WANT A SENIOR CLASS OF RUN WHAT YA BRUNG.

LMAO
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Old 12-07-2016, 04:28 PM   #105
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A different class for each racer
Everyone wins
Everyone gets a participation trophy
done!

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