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Old 12-07-2016, 11:32 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Um, excuse me, but when did 17.5 touring car become too fast?

Here's a better question who's fault is it that 17.5 became too fast?

And why are we sacrificing USGT to solve this?
That's easy. Everyone wanting the new biggest badest motor to run faster and not understanding setup makes a big part of that work.

17.5 is not too fast. It's a lot faster than it was, but I fail to understand why people want to watch cars run like slot cars around the track. They are so fast now, anything more than 2 mistakes and you're so far behind, you are just clicking laps at that point.

Quit trying to kill of USGT ( best class IMO ) and stick with running 13.5 and 17.5 TC cars that look nothing like an actual car.


Reading between the lines, people don't want the hobby to grow, they want to keep killing the same people over and over again every weekend.
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:35 AM   #77
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It's become quite popular here in Florida, mostly independent guys though.

Perhaps some ruling body should put a ban on sponsored guys running it. At our local off-road track and our state series, we have indy stock and pro stock and it surprisingly works really well. On-road could do the same thing, but also incorporate 21.5 and 17.5 or 13.5.
This, no sponsor driver should EVER be allowed to run USGT ( 21.5T ) anything.
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:50 AM   #78
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This, no sponsor driver should EVER be allowed to run USGT ( 21.5T ) anything.
I guess I don't understand this logic. Why not? Because they're too good of a driver? I like to race against sponsored drivers because I learn from them.

Mark
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:55 AM   #79
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Sponsored doesn't always translate to PRO driver. Some sponsored drivers are just good people that promotes the product and the hobby.

JS
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:57 AM   #80
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Sponsored doesn't always translate to PRO driver. Some sponsored drivers are just good people that promotes the product and the hobby.

JS
True, so it still doesn't make sense not to let them race in whatever class they want to.

Mark
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:58 AM   #81
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Here by us we had 21.5 blinky on national level, it was good but you dont want to race that class for more than two years. It was more an entry level class. It became a very expensive class, best battery and best esc money could by.

Now we have mods and then the new class 13.5 blinky, awesome class with 40 plus entries per event. Not to fast and not as technical as boosted classes. Best class ever. On Club level we still have 21.5
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:01 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
Sponsored doesn't always translate to PRO driver. Some sponsored drivers are just good people that promotes the product and the hobby.

JS
Sponsored pro driver. That is what is meant by that, I don't think a class like USGT ( 21.5T ) should be available to guys whom are in that situation.

You are in that situation because you are a really good driver. I was back in 97-98. I didn't race in lower tier classes because honestly it isn't fair.

Run the class that shows off your talent, not the classes people are running to build up their's.

Lot easier to convince people to come race if they might have a chance to win.
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:04 PM   #83
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I guess I don't understand this logic. Why not? Because they're too good of a driver? I like to race against sponsored drivers because I learn from them.

Mark
You are not learning anything, racing a PRO driver.


What can you learn by talking with him:
Setup? Sure
Lines on the track? Sure

What are you learning by getting beat in a class that was meant for average drivers by a PRO sponsored driver?

Nothing, really nothing. Most of what you will learn from them is watching them run laps or in the pit area.

Makes no sense.
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:11 PM   #84
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Darside... that would be a spokesman, but, not if you get product in return. Whatever, it's a super fuzzy gray line...
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:12 PM   #85
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Thanks....never thought of myself as a really good driver. I have my days... But back to this... So you think a sponsorship should disqualify you from USGT USVTA or even F1 or say WGT-R.... where do we draw the line. Talent is measured by the one with the talent not the watcher. And what level of sponsorship... Chassis only... Or motor... Or hobby shop... Or parents... Large can of worms huh

And just so it's known... My sponsorship has very little.... 10% or less, with my driving ability. It's more of me...to why Im sponsored
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:18 PM   #86
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You learn tons from the right PRO Driver... Why are so many racers at my track faster than most?... Guys like EA....we are constantly learning and pushing to catch up. We have old pros too that share knowledge and vital information. We have our PRO Drivers that help every Sunday to make sure we are at our best... Chasing that fast guy...MAKES YOU FAST...
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:32 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by scirocco14 View Post
I guess I don't understand this logic. Why not? Because they're too good of a driver? I like to race against sponsored drivers because I learn from them.

Mark
Most independent racers regardless of their skill-set are not going fare well against Sponsored racers just based ff low IR Lipos/stators or whatever top 1% equipment they receive from they/re respected companies
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:44 PM   #88
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Most independent racers regardless of their skill-set are not going fare well against Sponsored racers just based ff low IR Lipos/stators or whatever top 1% equipment they receive from they/re respected companies
That information is false. Most sponsored drivers get the same stuff as anybody else. My lipos are the same ones you can buy over the counter. You can't push a brand to the public if you get special stuff.
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:58 PM   #89
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Like Darkside said, I'll learn way more from racing against sponsored pro drivers (for a lot of reasons) than I will from beating a bunch of guys who are slower than I am. At the Southern Nats this year I got the privilege of racing against Matt Lyons for the first time and oh BOY did I get schooled. But by the end of the weekend I had gotten a lot faster, simply by seeing where I was getting beaten and how fast those guys get through the corners. Has nothing to do with lower IR batteries, stators, better rotors, etc., etc.

I think lots of people are looking for excuses, instead of putting their head down and working harder at getting faster. I also think we do a big disservice to newbies by NOT being honest with them and telling them that IF they work hard, IF they practice a lot, IF they learn how to set up their cars, then they MIGHT be able to win an A-Main in TWO to THREE years. If people are only interested in coming to race if they can win right away (or 'have a chance to win'), then they're going to be really disappointed....

I've only been at this for three years, and consider myself fairly intelligent and experienced in vehicle dynamics and racing (raced full scale SCCA racecars for over 15 years and have been involved with racing for over 50 years) and it's only just NOW that I'm starting to get in a position to win some A-mains in USVTA and occasionally USGT. Like any sport, it takes time, practice, and commitment to winning to be successful.

Just my $.02,

Mark
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:58 PM   #90
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That information is false. Most sponsored drivers get the same stuff as anybody else. My 9 are the same ones you can buy over the counter. You can't push a brand to the public if you get special stuff.
I respectfully disagree

If the skill set are all in equal in 21.5 between sponsored vs. non-sponsor at a big race......sponsored guys are gonna the best of the best in a class that was created for amateurs type race
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