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Old 12-17-2016, 11:01 AM   #346
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Might as well dump the 540s and go with 380s. lol
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Old 12-17-2016, 11:06 AM   #347
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Last night I spoke to a couple racers that raced at Stock Wars last weekend. Both raced USGT. Both had the same opinion. If you didn't have a TSR The One you were mid pack. The racer who came in second posted his TSR motor on Facebook. It was sold in seconds.
Maby I should post Matt lyons's Cleveland champs winning usgt motor then , cause he can still win with a normal tsr. Lol
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Old 12-17-2016, 12:20 PM   #348
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Last night I spoke to a couple racers that raced at Stock Wars last weekend. Both raced USGT. Both had the same opinion. If you didn't have a TSR The One you were mid pack. The racer who came in second posted his TSR motor on Facebook. It was sold in seconds.
wrong jim. 2nd place had a team powers actinium v2 motor. readily available. cheaper than other options.

its easy to make excuses for "why i lost". it is almost never that the person didn't have the right motor or battery. i encourage everyone else to man up and admit that their results are driven 90%+ by the driver, and not the equipment.

i was in two b-mains at SW -- i straight up sucked
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Old 12-17-2016, 01:16 PM   #349
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Well, I'll grant you, even with the best motor, I would still suck. Just not as much.

But please don't tell me the motor doesn't make a difference in spec racing. I've been doing this too long and have seen too many changes in motor technology that I know without a good motor you're fighting an uphill battle. If you're 10% down on motor to the guy next to you it takes 10% more skill just to keep up. And you can't go on line and order more skill. And the slower the spec, the more the motor makes a difference.

I think as racers we need to ask for much tighter motor specs, and call out those companies that push the envelope too far. $150 one off motors do more harm than good for the hobby. That will only push people out of the hobby.
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Old 12-17-2016, 11:25 PM   #350
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honestly if too many people are complaining about motor of the week issue at a certain location, the track owner can try to implement the kv and gearing limit on the affected class. Yes it takes some time to do the kv checking before race and checking/marking the pinions before race, but if people are not complaining then no body have to suffer through it. Also if someone cheats given these rules, you can easily spot the speed difference on the track, and the offender will be easily caught. I've seen one race implementing it and speed wise everyone was dead even.
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:00 AM   #351
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honestly if too many people are complaining about motor of the week issue at a certain location, the track owner can try to implement the kv and gearing limit on the affected class. Yes it takes some time to do the kv checking before race and checking/marking the pinions before race, but if people are not complaining then no body have to suffer through it. Also if someone cheats given these rules, you can easily spot the speed difference on the track, and the offender will be easily caught. I've seen one race implementing it and speed wise everyone was dead even.
kV says nothing about torque or power. You might get some parity on the straights with those rules, but not in the corners.
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:34 AM   #352
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kV says nothing about torque or power. You might get some parity on the straights with those rules, but not in the corners.
True but the right now for stock the key for motor design is how to maintain torque at high rpm range. If you limit the Kv the difference is minimized. It's almost impossible to make performance absolutely the same but it is at least much closer than not having a Kv limit
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Old 12-18-2016, 01:04 AM   #353
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True but the right now for stock the key for motor design is how to maintain torque at high rpm range. If you limit the Kv the difference is minimized. It's almost impossible to make performance absolutely the same but it is at least much closer than not having a Kv limit
No. Limiting Kv does not minimize the range of torque between different motors. And as gigaplex said, it's the product of the two that is important.
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Old 12-18-2016, 01:39 AM   #354
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No. Limiting Kv does not minimize the range of torque between different motors. And as gigaplex said, it's the product of the two that is important.
Yes, the motor with higher power will still produce higher torque and overall power across the rpm but at least the straightaway speed is equalized to a degree. Have the back emf of the motor contribute to more percentage of total drag of the car is key. Point is, it is more equal than not limiting anything. If there is no KV and gearing limit the newer motors not only produce more torque but can also achieve faster speeds on the straight. Limiting KV can basically kill off one advantage of having a faster motor.
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Old 12-18-2016, 02:29 AM   #355
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It amazes me how many ppl still think 2 motors of the same kv will therefore be equal. I can show plenty of dyno runs which prove otherwise.
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Old 12-18-2016, 03:36 AM   #356
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It amazes me how many ppl still think 2 motors of the same kv will therefore be equal. I can show plenty of dyno runs which prove otherwise.
As mentioned before the Muchmore ETS set is pretty close to each other.
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Old 12-18-2016, 05:15 AM   #357
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As mentioned before the Muchmore ETS set is pretty close to each other.
That shows the advantage of using the same motor brand, model, and (hopefully) batch.

The Brushless Racing League uses handout motors, where in addition to the above, motors are matched as closely as possible for resistance, timing, current draw, and other parameters. The resulting competition is very close!
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:32 AM   #358
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I believe the USVTA/USGT organization is large enough now that it could easily enforce its own standards. And the Manufacturers would comply. Why? Because USVTA/USGT/F1 are 95% of the US market for these motors and easily 80% of the world market. There is no reason to wait on ROAR on this. There is also ZERO reason to make a touring car class with 21.5 or 25.5 motors. There are already classes that exist with these. For the health of our own hobby we really need to stop re-inventing the wheel. There are no excuses of better traction, or cost with TC. Just tune your car to fit the tires. And if you feel you've outgrown the class, get another motor and tires and body for that class and have fun.

Could someone answer this honestly... How many on-road races/tracks are still ROAR sanctioned/sponsored. Outside of the ROAR Nats, I really can't think of anything.
Ok, here's what roar does:
To get a motor approved 3 samples are sent to the motor test person. All samples are taken apart and components tested and measured. Then 2 of the samples are destroyed by unwinding and complete disassembly to ensure any parts of the motor which are hidden when assembled are within parameters. The 3rd motor is kept for reference.

This is why races mandate ROAR approved motors. I know the USVTA is not going to start this sort of testing on motors. We have to piggyback on what ROAR does. SO does TOUR, BRL , to an extent, Snowbirds IIC etc.

I know everybody thinks ROAR is irrelevant, but they make the rules and have the facilities to do this type of testing. Nobody like ROAR because nobody wants to be told what to do ('Merica).
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Old 12-18-2016, 09:52 AM   #359
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Ok, here's what roar does:
To get a motor approved 3 samples are sent to the motor test person. All samples are taken apart and components tested and measured. Then 2 of the samples are destroyed by unwinding and complete disassembly to ensure any parts of the motor which are hidden when assembled are within parameters. The 3rd motor is kept for reference.

This is why races mandate ROAR approved motors. I know the USVTA is not going to start this sort of testing on motors. We have to piggyback on what ROAR does. SO does TOUR, BRL , to an extent, Snowbirds IIC etc.

I know everybody thinks ROAR is irrelevant, but they make the rules and have the facilities to do this type of testing. Nobody like ROAR because nobody wants to be told what to do ('Merica).
For sure but why can't roar add a min coil resistance to the rules?
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Old 12-18-2016, 09:55 AM   #360
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For sure but why can't roar add a min coil resistance to the rules?
It was easy with 25.5 since the motor class was new. Now it would have to be at least slightly below everything currently approved. Of course, someone will have something in the works if a rule is implemented, and they will lose their minds.
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