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Old 12-15-2016, 09:05 PM   #316
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I don't count TSR, not commercially available (ie stores) and their website is a sea of back orders. Maybe when they can come up with an adequate supply chain.
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Old 12-16-2016, 04:15 AM   #317
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Hook, line, and sinker!!! Lol
And the bait was much tastier than a worm (tequila notwithstanding).
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Old 12-16-2016, 06:20 AM   #318
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See what I did there?
ya had to do it........ I need to take that spoon away so you'll quit stirring. now lets go play with the 25.5 crowd.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:15 AM   #319
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So reading the last several posts, and judging what went on at Stock Wars, the only conclusion I can come to is the 21.5 motor war has already started, completely defeating the purpose of the 21.5 class.

How long will it be before USVTA suffers the same fate?
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:34 AM   #320
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So reading the last several posts, and judging what went on at Stock Wars, the only conclusion I can come to is the 21.5 motor war has already started, completely defeating the purpose of the 21.5 class.

How long will it be before USVTA suffers the same fate?
ROAR rules for 25.5T motors are much more restrictive than for any other wind. That has helped, and will help, to keep things in check.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:37 AM   #321
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I agree with Howard 100%. While there may be subtle differences between the motors, with the resistance specs on the motor (along with other specs carefully chosen), the 25.5 motors seem to be equal.

At upcoming races, I'll be measuring USVTA motors resistances in tech to see if any of the manufacturers are playing loose with the specs. If I find anything, it'll be reported to the authorities!!! lol.

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Old 12-16-2016, 09:17 AM   #322
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Sounds like the same measures put against 25.5 need to apply to the other spec winds: 21.5, 17.5, and 13.5.
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:28 AM   #323
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Sounds like the same measures put against 25.5 need to apply to the other spec winds: 21.5, 17.5, and 13.5.
Good luck with that , seems like on one has read the usgt thread a month ago .... Highly discussed topic
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:01 AM   #324
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Sounds like the same measures put against 25.5 need to apply to the other spec winds: 21.5, 17.5, and 13.5.
That would be great!

There seems to be an oft-used excuse for the motor wars in any class: "advancing technology". In reality, there isn't any new technology in any of this. The performance increases come only from changing dimensions that aren't called out in the motor rules. The motor wars are caused by inadequate rules. They don't have to happen.
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:45 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
That would be great!

There seems to be an oft-used excuse for the motor wars in any class: "advancing technology". In reality, there isn't any new technology in any of this. The performance increases come only from changing dimensions that aren't called out in the motor rules. The motor wars are caused by inadequate rules. They don't have to happen.
Not necessarily true. There are some things that are done "technology-wise" but they are kept close to the vest.
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Old 12-16-2016, 01:03 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
ROAR rules for 25.5T motors are much more restrictive than for any other wind. That has helped, and will help, to keep things in check.
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Originally Posted by RBLove View Post
Sounds like the same measures put against 25.5 need to apply to the other spec winds: 21.5, 17.5, and 13.5.
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
Good luck with that , seems like on one has read the usgt thread a month ago .... Highly discussed topic
Howard, I hope so.

I read those posts. Is it time we came up with a minimum resistance spec for 21.5 motors? Don't ask ROAR for it, let's come up with it and recommend it to ROAR.

So would it be acceptable to say that touring car should be 3 classes; VTA, GT, and 17.5? And open mod would only be run at the big races?
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Old 12-16-2016, 01:24 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
So reading the last several posts, and judging what went on at Stock Wars, the only conclusion I can come to is the 21.5 motor war has already started, completely defeating the purpose of the 21.5 class.

How long will it be before USVTA suffers the same fate?
Defeating the Purpose???????? what purpose is that. Its just another class the some feel the need to gain an edge. there is no other purpose. 25.5 in VTA you could say suffered or prospered the same thing last year when Novak was given the boot and other motors were allowed in the class.
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Old 12-16-2016, 01:27 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Howard, I hope so.

I read those posts. Is it time we came up with a minimum resistance spec for 21.5 motors? Don't ask ROAR for it, let's come up with it and recommend it to ROAR.

So would it be acceptable to say that touring car should be 3 classes; VTA, GT, and 17.5? And open mod would only be run at the big races?
..... and 13.5 too............ leave 25.5 for VTA and not another TC class. quit muddying up the waters
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:46 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Howard, I hope so.

I read those posts. Is it time we came up with a minimum resistance spec for 21.5 motors? Don't ask ROAR for it, let's come up with it and recommend it to ROAR.
I submitted minimum resistance rules when I was the ROAR technical director, more than three years ago. No one else on the executive committee voted yea or nay; I don't even think they believed it was important. If they had acted, we would have avoided both the "short stack" motor war, and the current "skinny stack" motor war. That's a whole bunch of racer's money that could have been saved.
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:47 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by Carnage9270 View Post
Not necessarily true. There are some things that are done "technology-wise" but they are kept close to the vest.
No. There is nothing new.
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