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Old 12-11-2016, 03:15 PM   #211
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How a car looks, and how it actually runs in your hands are two different things. Were your lap times slower because your car was producing more power, and therefore you had to baby it a bit more through the corners? But since your lap times were slower, it means your car was set up right for you before you took his advice.

Or the other pessimistic view is that this local "expericed" guy was setting you up for failure because you were a threat to his podium spot. I've seen it happen.
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Old 12-11-2016, 03:30 PM   #212
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How a car looks, and how it actually runs in your hands are two different things. Were your lap times slower because your car was producing more power, and therefore you had to baby it a bit more through the corners? But since your lap times were slower, it means your car was set up right for you before you took his advice.

Or the other pessimistic view is that this local "expericed" guy was setting you up for failure because you were a threat to his podium spot. I've seen it happen.
It actually felt like it had a little less power. I doubt he was intentionally setting me up for failure as he normally races in the next class above me, and is the club president.
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Old 12-11-2016, 04:00 PM   #213
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I think a 1/12 21.5 class would be cool, running 13.5 now, and it's too fast for me, would like the slower "stock" speed.
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Old 12-11-2016, 04:21 PM   #214
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I'd personally rather see a fixed timing, fixed FDR spec or control motor 17.5 class rather than an "open" 21.5 class.
For AARCMCC state & National events, I feel leave it the way it is for 21.5 & 13.5 touring car. If people want to drop substantial amounts of $ to compete at these events, then I'm more than happy to watch them do so.

After the current AARCMCC proposals are voted on, and when we go into the new year, I'm going to try and move forward on the 17.5 fixed timing, control fdr, control tire, "GT" (maybe call it AUSGT?) here at both our club, and, any other neighbouring club that wants to take part in the class.

Ideally, it would be good to see other clubs take it on board and setup an "Inter Club" championship series, that takes place on a normally scheduled club day, to not interfere with their other members that want to race in their class of choice.


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I was at the track yesterday and asked one of the more experienced guys to take my car for a spin to see what he could do with it. He said my gearing/timing was way off, and told me to crank the end bell up to 45 (from 30) and lose a few teeth on the pinion. He said it looked much better, but my lap times were actually slower and the motor was cooking at 85 degrees C. When I mentioned that, he shrugged and said I needed a better fan (I have a 40mm WTF). If that's what it takes to be fast, I'd rather a gimped 17.5 rather than a 21.5 pushed to the melting point.
Especially now at outdoor tracks as the temperatures are rising from going into summer weather.
I've seen people using 2 fans on their motors in different configurations, and fans that rev so hard, that they sound like mini jet engines.
Running a fan on a fixed timing motor, along with a track suitable fdr ration would mean that you'd only need one fan to keep it adequately cool.
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Old 12-11-2016, 04:37 PM   #215
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For AARCMCC state & National events, I feel leave it the way it is for 21.5 & 13.5 touring car. If people want to drop substantial amounts of $ to compete at these events, then I'm more than happy to watch them do so.

After the current AARCMCC proposals are voted on, and when we go into the new year, I'm going to try and move forward on the 17.5 fixed timing, control fdr, control tire, "GT" (maybe call it AUSGT?) here at both our club, and, any other neighbouring club that wants to take part in the class.

Ideally, it would be good to see other clubs take it on board and setup an "Inter Club" championship series, that takes place on a normally scheduled club day, to not interfere with their other members that want to race in their class of choice.




Especially now at outdoor tracks as the temperatures are rising from going into summer weather.
I've seen people using 2 fans on their motors in different configurations, and fans that rev so hard, that they sound like mini jet engines.
Running a fan on a fixed timing motor, along with a track suitable fdr ration would mean that you'd only need one fan to keep it adequately cool.
The GT class is a fun class, I've run it a few times at SERCCC.

The weather was much hotter the week before at the Ron Wilson Memorial race, and my old timing/FDR setup peaked at 70 degrees C. Still pretty warm, but not as bad as last nights run on a cooler track. I'd rather be slow and have a motor set up so it won't cook even if the fan fails for some reason, so I'll be avoiding the multi fan configurations.
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Old 12-11-2016, 05:13 PM   #216
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The GT class is a fun class, I've run it a few times at SERCCC.
Plus the cars with their scale appearance look better, and are something that someone watching can relate to.

The goals to aim for this class is:

*Scale appearance
*Keep costs down
*Reduce the complexity to get into rc car racing
*Close, and fair racing
*Participation at other clubs tracks
*Attract interest from spectators, both new, and current racers
*And most important - to have fun!
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Old 12-11-2016, 06:09 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by ta04evah View Post
Plus the cars with their scale appearance look better, and are something that someone watching can relate to.

The goals to aim for this class is:

*Scale appearance
*Keep costs down
*Reduce the complexity to get into rc car racing
*Close, and fair racing
*Participation at other clubs tracks
*Attract interest from spectators, both new, and current racers
*And most important - to have fun!
My main concern regarding the "scale appearance" goal is that most of the SERCCC guys run the Protoform GT body, which isn't all that scale and there's not much variety. You'd need some kind of incentive or "gentleman's agreement" to spice that up a bit.
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Old 12-11-2016, 06:51 PM   #218
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after the current AARCMCC proposals are voted on, and when we go into the new year, I'm going to try and move forward on the 17.5 fixed timing, control fdr, control tire, "GT" (maybe call it AUSGT?) here at both our club, and, any other neighbouring club that wants to take part in the class.

Ideally, it would be good to see other clubs take it on board and setup an "Inter Club" championship series, that takes place on a normally scheduled club day, to not interfere with their other members that want to race in their class of choice.

+1
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Old 12-11-2016, 06:57 PM   #219
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[QUOTE=;
]after the current AARCMCC proposals are voted on, and when we go into the new year, I'm going to try and move forward on the 17.5 fixed timing, control fdr, control tire, "GT" (maybe call it AUSGT?) here at both our club, and, any other neighbouring club that wants to take part in the class.

Ideally, it would be good to see other clubs take it on board and setup an "Inter Club" championship series, that takes place on a normally scheduled club day, to not interfere with their other members that want to race in their class of choice.

+1
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Old 12-11-2016, 08:09 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
I was at the track yesterday and asked one of the more experienced guys to take my car for a spin to see what he could do with it. He said my gearing/timing was way off, and told me to crank the end bell up to 45 (from 30) and lose a few teeth on the pinion. He said it looked much better, but my lap times were actually slower and the motor was cooking at 85 degrees C. When I mentioned that, he shrugged and said I needed a better fan (I have a 40mm WTF). If that's what it takes to be fast, I'd rather a gimped 17.5 rather than a 21.5 pushed to the melting point.
This sounds like the motor was not at its peak efficiency, but how would a 17.5 change things?

What I would do is check the top rev count at the wheel with both setups to determine motor revs "unloaded".

Your motor seems like it is labouring with the new timing/gearing.

Another measure is to try and look at acceleration. If the car accelerates better, that may invalidate my guess, but if it doesn't, then it becomes clear the motor is off its peak torque and revving to high heaven for no gain.
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Old 12-11-2016, 08:33 PM   #221
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This sounds like the motor was not at its peak efficiency, but how would a 17.5 change things?

What I would do is check the top rev count at the wheel with both setups to determine motor revs "unloaded".

Your motor seems like it is labouring with the new timing/gearing.

Another measure is to try and look at acceleration. If the car accelerates better, that may invalidate my guess, but if it doesn't, then it becomes clear the motor is off its peak torque and revving to high heaven for no gain.
Simply replacing with a 17.5 wouldn't change things, but a spec/control 17.5 at fixed timing and FDR (rather than open 21.5) would change things by virtue of everyone being at the same setting. I wouldn't need to worry about finding peak efficiency and monitoring temperatures.

I did some no-load current readings last night using a multimeter plugged into my ESC, and it was drawing around 3A at the original 30 degree timing, and a touch over 6A at 34 degrees timing. I couldn't get to 40 degrees timing without blowing the 10A fuse on my multimeter. I think that's why the motor was overheating, I don't think gearing would have helped much. It's a Reedy Sonic M2.
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Old 12-11-2016, 08:45 PM   #222
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Simply replacing with a 17.5 wouldn't change things, but a spec/control 17.5 at fixed timing and FDR (rather than open 21.5) would change things by virtue of everyone being at the same setting. I wouldn't need to worry about finding peak efficiency and monitoring temperatures.

I did some no-load current readings last night using a multimeter plugged into my ESC, and it was drawing around 3A at the original 30 degree timing, and a touch over 6A at 34 degrees timing. I couldn't get to 40 degrees timing without blowing the 10A fuse on my multimeter. I think that's why the motor was overheating, I don't think gearing would have helped much. It's a Reedy Sonic M2.
Yea the old m2 wasn't much for timing like the newer m3 ...
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Old 12-11-2016, 09:57 PM   #223
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My main concern regarding the "scale appearance" goal is that most of the SERCCC guys run the Protoform GT body, which isn't all that scale and there's not much variety. You'd need some kind of incentive or "gentleman's agreement" to spice that up a bit.
Not sure on how to get around that one, while both (Camaro & Cadilac) are still classed as GT, and are somewhat less expensive than other body shells, we don't want to put in place anything that will turn people away.

However I believe there will be a number of people that will use other body shells anyway, because they like how they look, and are not concerned if it'll shave fractions of a second of their lap times or not.

Also, questions have been asked in regards to scale, and/or TC style rear wings and dimensions. A proposal is to allow both, being that they have to be lower than the highest point in the body's roof line, and if someone wants to use a wing 40mm high that is under the roof line, then by all means, feel free to use a giant air brake on the car.

*edit* With scale appearance wings, some offer no aerodynamic advantage at all, and may be excepted from the ruling*
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Last edited by ta04evah; 12-11-2016 at 10:00 PM. Reason: *scale wing exception*
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:00 PM   #224
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Why don't you just emulate USGT rules?
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:08 PM   #225
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Why don't you just emulate USGT rules?
It would be too similar to the 21.5 sportsman class that we run over here, which would likely dilute things a bit.
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