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Old 12-09-2016, 06:19 PM   #196
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I used to run stock but as you get older, things get a bit harder to see so I have more fun now in 21.5 the pace is just about right for me. I don't really think it's the new stock, the average lap time is around 19-20 seconds a lap and if I look back to the 2011 Australian National titles for stock (which I think was 17.5 boosted back then) it was 17-18 seconds a lap then and is 17-18 seconds a lap now for 13.5 Blinky, so I don't buy some of the assertions that 21.5 is the new stock. What I am cautious of is people using these arguments to rationalize overly excessive controls (handout motors etc) and essentially stifling classes that are just starting to regain some interest.
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Old 12-09-2016, 09:08 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
more door to door racing.
Door to door is one thing, it's the nose to tail thing you have trouble with..lol
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Old 12-10-2016, 06:03 AM   #198
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Door to door is one thing, it's the nose to tail thing you have trouble with..lol
😕 Yea I've been known to have more power coming out of the corner . Lol
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Old 12-10-2016, 09:25 AM   #199
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I don't understand your logic. First you say you know you can't win, but as long as you are having fun you will race.

So why worry about what car everyone else uses. Run your car and have fun.

You also said cost was an issuse. Ok if you are happy with a 16yr old platform. Then you can surely pick up a used Awesomatix,X-ray or some other chassis that's 3-4 yrs old for a little bit of cash.

Then you are in a car that's very capable of getting you right back to racing and knowing you aren't going to win but are doing it just for the fun of it. Now only with a kit that's not so old.

Right where you are now, maybe even in a little better position with the newer chassis.
The car isn't the problem, the class is the problem.

As long as 17.5 is the racer class and USGT leans more to the fun side, I know I can race. In VTA when someone I know comes up on me to pass, I'll harass them for a little bit, but when they have a clear shot at passing, I move over and let them go. Because it's a fun class, they're not bothered by it. But if USGT is the "new stock," if I even think about throwing a block, that driver is going to start screaming in my ear about courtesy, different clocks, and all the other stuff that goes on in the race classes. Now he's not necessarily wrong, but that's not why I'm there. Making USGT the new stock class takes some of the fun out of it, and that takes away some of my reasons for wanting to race.
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Old 12-10-2016, 09:35 AM   #200
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Why not just continue to run vta since its this or quit?
Isn't racing vta better than sitting at home twitilling our thumbs ?
Like Kregger said, the new track doesn't run VTA. I've spoken to the owner and he explained why he doesn't run VTA or mini, and I 100% agree with him. Each track needs to find it's own customer base, and this track caters to the medium to high end racer. Too many classes is also a bad thing. So for me it's USGT or nothing. I'm sure if I go up there there's enough good people that I'll have fun. Just some of that fun will be lost if the class gets too serious.

Oh and trust me. If you come to this track with less than your best, you will get your butt handed to you.
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Old 12-10-2016, 09:38 AM   #201
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Jim,

Its funny you should mention that, I was running my TA-05 in USGT because my pro4 was down and a USGT racer said to me I have to get what he's running ( I believe it was an awsomematix) to be competitive. I told him no thank you I'm perfectily fine with what I have.

There are a bunch of us that are group together where your TC4 would be just fine in USGT.
Thanks Kregger I appreciate that. In the meantime I'm running chicken's old car at IRH. Which reminds me why don't you guys race there any more???
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:12 AM   #202
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WOW! 14 pages on this. Get ready for more. I started racing 15yrs ago and how things have changed, for the better I think. I have seen classes come and go and then the Numbers started dropping, not sure why, but the racing survived thanks to the die hards. In the R.S.A we followed the trend and introduced a 21.5 class 3yrs ago, and on National level we had more than 30 entries per event. Rules were quite basic: pro chassis,fixed timing motor, blinky esc,FDR limit etc. This was considered an entry level class meaning if you run any other class you coud not compete in 21.5. And after two years that`s it, up you go to a faster class. As a relatively small RC community (max 200) racers and no REAL funds , scruiteneering was always going to be a challenge and cheating started to creep in. This killed the class. And as the worldwide economic crunch was hitting us as well, The controlling body had to downsize and the class was dropped a year ago. One year later and the interest is growing again so in hindsight there is space for 21.5 as an entry level class, but Nationally .... I don`t think so, unless the numbers are rising at club level,with stricter rules, which I will enforce at my club. To be successful an ETS format should be employed, Handout motors or in F1 terms, Parc Ferme, rule to be applied where the club or controlling body need to take possesion of the motors/electronics until race/practice day..... Difficult to enforce but excecuteable. And like in all the threads I have read if you want to go faster move on.

So in closing, there is place for 21.5 as stock and I like to qoute the famous line from Field of Dreams movie "I you build/host it, they will come"
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Old 12-11-2016, 01:19 AM   #203
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I'd personally rather see a fixed timing, fixed FDR spec or control motor 17.5 class rather than an "open" 21.5 class.
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Old 12-11-2016, 04:22 AM   #204
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21.5 brushless motor as the new stock? How slow do they want to to go?
I run 10.5 in my Tamiya Evo 5. It's not fast. I call it a comfortable fast.
My 9-year-old son can handle a 13.5.
But it's about having Fun.
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Old 12-11-2016, 08:50 AM   #205
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I'd personally rather see a fixed timing, fixed FDR spec or control motor 17.5 class rather than an "open" 21.5 class.
What is the advantage you see in a spec 17.5 over a spec 21.5?
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:41 AM   #206
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With open rules you still have to get an enginering degree of how to setup the ESC/motor/gearing while with everting locked (endbell, blinky, FDR and handout motor to be sure it stays stock) it comes more to the car and driver.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:02 PM   #207
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With open rules you still have to get an enginering degree of how to setup the ESC/motor/gearing while with everting locked (endbell, blinky, FDR and handout motor to be sure it stays stock) it comes more to the car and driver.
I disagree . If it takes a degree just to figure out a fdr /endbell timing curve that's competitive trying to get your car setup correctly is off the charts hard to do ...
Given having a motor with open timing/gearing does add to the complexity but that's nothing in the grand scheme. It's normal stuff .
Having a locked timing set fdr would take that small tuning factor away . But speeds will not differ much from 21.5 ,actually the locked 17.5 will probably have more punch and less topend than today's now crop of 21.5s
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:11 PM   #208
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I'm not running 17.5 I began boycotting touring car when the car prices reached $400. Now they're over $500.

I run VTA with my TC4 that was my touring car back in the day. I do reasonably well and have fun when I race it. I'm not going to win, don't have the skills any more, but as long as it's fun, I'll race it.

The nearest carpet track to me is 360V2. A great track run by some of the best people in the hobby. They don't run VTA, but they do run USGT. I did get a body, and I have a 21.5 motor to use.

However, one racer, who's opinion I respect, has stated that USGT is the new stock. Not just 21.5 TC. If that's true, how can I expect to compete with brand new Awesomatix cars racing my 16 year old car? All of a sudden, the fun is gone.

Here's a question does this also mean 21.5 12th scale?
21.5 1/12 is already running in the Midwest.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:16 PM   #209
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Haha, yes it is. 1S 17.5 feels like 21.5 anyways
Yes, 1/12 with 21.5 feels very much the same as 17.5. Lap times are between .3 and .5 slower depending on the track size and design.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:19 PM   #210
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I was at the track yesterday and asked one of the more experienced guys to take my car for a spin to see what he could do with it. He said my gearing/timing was way off, and told me to crank the end bell up to 45 (from 30) and lose a few teeth on the pinion. He said it looked much better, but my lap times were actually slower and the motor was cooking at 85 degrees C. When I mentioned that, he shrugged and said I needed a better fan (I have a 40mm WTF). If that's what it takes to be fast, I'd rather a gimped 17.5 rather than a 21.5 pushed to the melting point.
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