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Old 11-29-2016, 03:50 PM   #1
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Default Let's talk race formats

hi all - we all love racing -- but we all have opinions on how we can make it better. coming on the back side of some great events so far this indoor season-
  • IIC
  • Halloween Classic
  • US Indoor Champs <-- the biggest event of the year so far!

all opinions are fair game- lets hear em-
  • qual points
  • shorter racers
  • running stock one day, mod the next day
  • pan car one day, tc the next day
  • double/triple mains
  • heads up qualifying
  • less qualifying, more racing
  • reedy style
  • race directors not afraid to call stop-n-gos
  • restarting mains after a first lap wreck
  • bump ups

how can we make this hobby better??
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Last edited by hanulec; 11-29-2016 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 11-29-2016, 03:59 PM   #2
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Where to begin .
Seeding seems to help clean up the equals thats good
I like the heads up races but unfortunately not everyone respects others space and pace with the passing in the first 30sec of racing ,which sucks .
I would think it would be pretty cool to see;
3min quals
And triple mains @ std lengths
Or just go qual points all the way . Both have its place . I've attempted to get our race director to do more heads up racing on club day just so we all know how to make the first corner (or lap even) ,clean...
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:17 PM   #3
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1. Shorter races Ex. 3 day race instead of 4!
2. Triple A - mains
3. Less classes
4. Limit entries somehow but stack available classes
5. Take the races out of ball rooms and put them in car shows. Target audience doesn't even know we exist because we are racing in hotels
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Adams View Post
1. Shorter races Ex. 3 day race instead of 4!
2. Triple A - mains
3. Less classes
4. Limit entries somehow but stack available classes
5. Take the races out of ball rooms and put them in car shows. Target audience doesn't even know we exist because we are racing in hotels
1. 3 race days isn't a bad idea if entries are below 300 but if they are above that 3 days are either unfilling or very long days .
2. Again triple A-mains would be a chore on 3 day events but great for iic or birds.
3. Less classes !
TC
Usvta
Usgt
Stock
Mod
1/12
Spec (spec tires/17.5)
Stock (open tire 13.5)
Mod
4. Limited entries per class isn't a bad thing
5. Holding races at hotels are cheaper than civic center rentals I would imagine . But love I idea for sure !
Remember racing in parking lots in Memphis tons of intrest from people passing by .
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Old 11-29-2016, 07:51 PM   #5
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Qual points...for every race.

Handout motors for spec classes

all classes 5 minute races (yes even 1/12th scale)
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Old 11-29-2016, 08:45 PM   #6
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I like it !
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Old 11-29-2016, 09:27 PM   #7
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Make Super Stock open ESC or not run it at all to encourage Mod entries. It's not a big enough jump in speed and power to make sense.

All touring cars run spec tires, this is a good thing.

Stock 1/12 runs spec tires but we should try offering racers two choices of front tire, maybe even two choices of rear tire, think Magenta or something similar. Super Stock, (if it is run at all), and Mod are open tire.

As much as i hate to say it, it is getting more and more reasonable to require stock to be handout motor. Mod is Mod, and is open motor and ESC.

I know people are married to the full-length race as a "qualifier" but maybe we should try running a program in which fast single laps count and bad ones can get thrown out. Maybe average your fastest 50 individual laps over all qualifiers to be your score? Fastest 100 laps?
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Old 11-29-2016, 10:04 PM   #8
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Perhaps steal race formats from Track Cycling?

Devil take the hindmost, or Devil take the leader.. Both lead to interesting strategys.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elimination_races

Have a pace car, and then a final one or two lap sprint:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keirin

Start cars on oppisite sides of the track, whomever catches who, wins:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_pursuit
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Old 11-29-2016, 10:23 PM   #9
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I would be all for doing say, three 4 or 5 lap qualifying heats with only 2 cars on track, started IFMAR style with half a lap spacing. It would be somewhat similar to pre-2006 F1 qualifying. Best two heats times are summed. Then, run double or triple mains (8, 10, 12 minutes each?).

The USVTA Indoor Nats has used 1 minute qual heats to seed the actual qualifying heats for the VTA class. It is actually fairly exciting to watch and participate in, and would be more-so if it counted more.
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Old 11-29-2016, 10:36 PM   #10
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Stock and Mod TC. Stock and Mod 12th. And a filler class. USGT for TC and/or WGT or F1 for pan car. I like the idea of 3 day race instead of 4. Heads up racing would be cool. Reminds me of TCS racing.
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Old 11-29-2016, 10:51 PM   #11
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I dont think shortening the qualifying races are really the answer. With the cost of travel and entry fees do people really want less track time for there money ? Being a racer who primarily runs 1/12, i actually dont mind Arts suggestion on all races 5 minutes.
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Old 11-29-2016, 11:44 PM   #12
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Many people want to standardize classes or fewer classes but I don't see that as a realistic option. Each event needs to cater to the classes that will draw entries. 17.5 TC, USGT, and 17/5 1/12 were the largest classes at USIC last weekend. vta was down but 2 other classes - F1 and WGTR - had 30 and 40 entries respectively and are clearly on the rise. 13.5 TC had 1 heat and is maybe not long for the event (my guess only, I certainly don't speak for Sean and Ken). Mod TC was also up, and nice to see even if many of us in the class did more damage to our cars than our lap times.

At the end of the day, the event organizer has to go with what gets him entries. period. Without the added cars from F1, USGT & WGTR USIC would have been a significantly smaller event and they would not be able to have the larger track and nicer hotel. In general the more 'realistic' classes are gaining in popularity and are starting to overtake the traditional TC and 1/12 classes. Look at F1 in the last 2 years.

For the actual racing
  1. Seeding quals, or even just clocking your 3 fastest laps in succession during a structured practice session prior to qualifying. The original vta seeding run was 2 full laps with a warm up and cool down with the next car on the track as you started your cool down lap - just like NASCAR. That is cool when there's 1 person on the stand and a roomful of people watching. I would love to see it at a big race. Having done it, its scary as hell for the average racer when there are 50 or more people watching just you on the track.
  2. I don't think qual points are viable unless most racers are at the same level. That is definitely not the case at a large event.
  3. 5 minute races for every class. I know this is almost a biblical thing for the 1/12 guys, but is there really a reason other than that's the way its always been done? Its time to move the needle a bit. Shorter races might equal more racers
  4. Single mains. I just don't think triple mains work when you have 440 racers and 12 classes. There were 43 mains with 10 cars each (mostly) at USIC. Having triple A's would have added 24 races for a 67 race mains day. That isn't going to work. People have to get home.
  5. Keep the track open all night. There were guys wrenching 24/7 at USIC. Plenty of time to practice..
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Old 11-30-2016, 03:16 AM   #13
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I think finding a way to make an individual's day shorter/more compressed would be ideal. Kind of like snowbirds.. but to a greater degree. track is open, racing is happening, but you are either racing actively, or awaiting another race period to start.

Look at Eos. 2wd runs a bunch (ie multi qual rounds) and then 4wd takes over the program. If this was either laid out based upon generic chassis type (Tc vs pan) or motor class (stock vs mod) I think people would have bigger chunks of time to decide they can do something else, or maybe take a nap, so possibly they can then take advantage of further practice.
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Old 11-30-2016, 05:19 AM   #14
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Handout motor for stock classes. There are some very affordable options available. Having to do a complete motor tear down and then having to re-tech a motor for a timing change at the Indoor Champs seems like a time suck for racers and the people running the race. I don't dispute the reasoning behind the decision but a lot of time could have been saved by just going handout. Neither is a perfect solution.
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Old 11-30-2016, 05:24 AM   #15
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What happened to alternate formats such as Enduro events? I'd like to see some variety, rather than the same formula at different venues.
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