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Old 11-17-2016, 09:05 PM   #106
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I see $240 and out of stock for that BSR at HobbyKing, but that's a darn fine deal if everything works OK. Do you have a source that's sub-$200?
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Old 11-18-2016, 03:09 AM   #107
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I see $240 and out of stock for that BSR at HobbyKing, but that's a darn fine deal if everything works OK. Do you have a source that's sub-$200?
They were all over eBay. There's a couple 13.5 Artr models and the kit version. Have to see how long takes to get back in stock.

Last edited by Billy Kelly; 11-18-2016 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 11-18-2016, 03:37 AM   #108
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What do you mean by "hooked"? Getting them in the door is all well and good, but if they only show up a couple of times, I wouldn't call that being hooked. We want to encourage new racers while minimising the number of people that dump some cash and don't stick with it.
Hooked to me is having the will to go out on a night to turn some laps for a period of time, you do that by having as much people trying RC as possible. Some will stay, some don't. I'm not into demanding that everyone sticks in RC but at least try it.

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"If you or anyone else want timing system please run the one made by Howard Cano, it's close to DIY and fulfil the role perfectly while being way more cheaper than the evil ones available." I'm perfectly happy with my AMB/RCSP system, thanks. I certainly don't begrudge anyone running something else. Doesn't have anything to do with a budget racing class, of course.
Sorry if it came out that way, I was focusing on the noobs because they are the ones that need a 100$+ transponder or the track to buy a complete system (impossible to my local track to do that) or rent one (still way more expensive than doing Howard's PT). Look at this, we (the local track) have to acquire the carpet, place to run (easy, rent the local city-owned gym periodically) and an AMB system to start racing. For how many drivers to show up? In a population of 10000 in the city, around 2000 are between 10-18, most of them need transportation to the track so let's say 3000 potential drivers if we count fathers joining the fun. In reality we are 15 and the cost to start is frightening (we have a dirt track though). Soccer on the other hand has thousand upon thousands of players (locally), houses with PS3(4)+FIFA are common... and you know why? Because RC racing isn't seen as a sport, but toy "racing".

Luckily we have the Maverick Strada TC for 120 (brushed version), includes everything to run and most people could spend 120+track fees to see if they like racing or not.
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Old 11-18-2016, 04:43 AM   #109
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Don't forget, you don't need a transponder to come in last place. You don't need a transponder for practice either.

Loaner transponders are the worst idea in RC, IME. Takes forever for newbs to put them in every run, and they'll just grab the wrong one, or forget to give it back.

If you want to do loaners. Get regular AMB's, not the rechargeables. Rent them out for $10, use someones drivers license as collateral to make sure you get them back. That way they can leave the transponder in their car for the entire day. (don't forget to shrink wrap the wires)
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Old 11-18-2016, 06:05 AM   #110
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Everyone has their beliefs. Track transponders have been invaluable to me over the years. No need to put them back throughout the day, unless I exceed the nine that I have, which hasn't happened since the Slash explosion. Perhaps your opinion is based on very different experiences. Would I spend a grand on personals to do the same thing? Maybe, if I did not have the battery operated versions. However, on the day that I need more than I have, swapping personal transponders every round is the definition of pain in the ass.

When we're talking about recruiting new racers with inexpensive race classes, I assume we're talking organized racing at a track. My comment about the importance of timing data to hook people who will become solid racers is one I certainly stand by.

I have owned two pretty high quality race facilities. Hence, I wouldn't be looking at DIY options... my current loop is about 100 feet from the booth, so "[loop] must terminate as closely as possible to loop amplifier input" is a no-go for me. I certainly understand that others might consider DIY (or something like Trackmate)... although in the total cost picture of what it takes to put together a track (other than a temp parking lot track) a professional decoder isn't more than a moderate expense, and it holds value better than anything else you'll buy.
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Old 11-18-2016, 06:48 AM   #111
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I think this is where Vintage Trans Am came in. Everyone runs the same tires/wheels and there were limits on almost everything. You could bring out an old chassis because it was slow enough that you could set the car up once and just race.
That was the idea until people started racing the latest and greatest because there wasn'the any restrictions.

Some of the best racing I have done over the 20 years I've been off and on in has been when a class is very restricted on what you can run.
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Old 11-18-2016, 06:54 AM   #112
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Don't forget, you don't need a transponder to come in last place. You don't need a transponder for practice either.

Loaner transponders are the worst idea in RC, IME. Takes forever for newbs to put them in every run, and they'll just grab the wrong one, or forget to give it back.

If you want to do loaners. Get regular AMB's, not the rechargeables. Rent them out for $10, use someones drivers license as collateral to make sure you get them back. That way they can leave the transponder in their car for the entire day. (don't forget to shrink wrap the wires)
Basically this. For the expense and pain they aren't worth the expense to the track or drivers.

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Everyone has their beliefs. Track transponders have been invaluable to me over the years. No need to put them back throughout the day, unless I exceed the nine that I have, which hasn't happened since the Slash explosion. Perhaps your opinion is based on very different experiences. Would I spend a grand on personals to do the same thing? Maybe, if I did not have the battery operated versions. However, on the day that I need more than I have, swapping personal transponders every round is the definition of pain in the ass.

When we're talking about recruiting new racers with inexpensive race classes, I assume we're talking organized racing at a track. My comment about the importance of timing data to hook people who will become solid racers is one I certainly stand by.

I have owned two pretty high quality race facilities. Hence, I wouldn't be looking at DIY options... my current loop is about 100 feet from the booth, so "[loop] must terminate as closely as possible to loop amplifier input" is a no-go for me. I certainly understand that others might consider DIY (or something like Trackmate)... although in the total cost picture of what it takes to put together a track (other than a temp parking lot track) a professional decoder isn't more than a moderate expense, and it holds value better than anything else you'll buy.
I hear you and understand where you're coming from. You see value in comparing lap times and if you improved since last time (heck, me too). A noob has other priorities the first time he/she picks up a Tx (here is my experience).

Yes organized racing is the true motive, I think no one would be interested if there wasn't any sort of competition going on. Turning a succession of good laps (improving oneself) the current objective but we want good competitive racing for all as the ultimate goal.

Aha. You are fine with the official solution but here is parking lot racing (weather permitting, that's why we are moving indoors in the winter). Unfortunately acquiring our own timing system is an expensive gamble, and right now it's not high priority (but understandable for it to be high priority on a track like yours!).
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Old 11-18-2016, 06:57 AM   #113
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That was the idea until people started racing the latest and greatest because there wasn'the any restrictions.

Some of the best racing I have done over the 20 years I've been off and on in has been when a class is very restricted on what you can run.

Exactly. As long as the "spirit" of the class is maintained by the people racing it, dollars to donuts the class will succeed whatever it may be. Soon as people start getting really competitive and pushing the rules the class is as good as dead unless the restrictions on it are air tight.
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Old 11-18-2016, 07:10 AM   #114
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... my current loop is about 100 feet from the booth, so "[loop] must terminate as closely as possible to loop amplifier input" is a no-go for me.
If you are referring to the Cano decoder, then this is no different from the AMB. The Cano loop amplifier must be located at the loop, just the same as the AMB balun transformer. The loop amplifier or balun then connects to the decoder via coaxial cable, so there's no appreciable difference between the two systems in this regard.

However, the Cano decoder is a very complex project, and this definitely makes it a no-go for most people or groups.
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Old 11-18-2016, 07:49 AM   #115
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Exactly. As long as the "spirit" of the class is maintained by the people racing it, dollars to donuts the class will succeed whatever it may be. Soon as people start getting really competitive and pushing the rules the class is as good as dead unless the restrictions on it are air tight.
There is totally room for a "This is a driver development class. If you take this to seriously, you're going to be relegated to 'normal' race classes, at the discression of other drivers, or the race organizer."
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Old 11-18-2016, 09:09 AM   #116
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There is totally room for a "This is a driver development class. If you take this to seriously, you're going to be relegated to 'normal' race classes, at the discression of other drivers, or the race organizer."
That's how the real racing works. U must rank up to move into the high divisons.
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Old 11-18-2016, 09:36 AM   #117
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That's how the real racing works. U must rank up to move into the high divisons.
Read: Why Nero is Category 5 on his USA Cycling license.

Hah. RC is still in the same place paintball was a few years ago. There was no player licensing system in paintball, so "pros" could sandbag. Now you sign up for a license to play tournaments (Read: Races) so they know what your player (race) history is.

I doubt we need it in R/C.
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Old 11-18-2016, 09:58 AM   #118
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Legends. End of story. They are $100 brand new and include a $20 body and $35 worth of tires. You can morph the basic rules to suit your club, but what must remain is the first and most important rule: If it's not in the rules it's not allowed. Everyone runs the same chassis, battery, tires and a limited selection of bodies. These things are quite durable and replacement parts are cheap. This class has been the longest running and most successful "beginners" class at our local track. You can get into one of these from the ground up with all new components for about $350 including radio and charger.
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Old 11-18-2016, 10:30 AM   #119
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" The Cano loop amplifier must be located at the loop, just the same as the AMB balun transformer."

Are you saying that the black box where wire meets cable on the AMB loop has required electronics inside it? I would be pretty surprised at that, since I've spend seven years running homemade wire loops with nothing but solder in this location, with the loop anywhere from 50 to 120 feet from the decoder. That's using the RC2 decoder.
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Old 11-18-2016, 10:33 AM   #120
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"For the expense and pain they aren't worth the expense to the track or drivers."

I understand that this is your opinion. Mine, based on the two tracks I've owned, is the opposite.

"I hear you and understand where you're coming from. You see value in comparing lap times and if you improved since last time (heck, me too). A noob has other priorities the first time he/she picks up a Tx (here is my experience)."

That's actually not what I said. In my experience, the novices that care about their improving lap and heat times are the ones who stick around. Therefore my suggestion that providing this information as part of your race program is an important factor in novice-to-regular uptake.
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