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Old 11-17-2016, 09:59 AM   #91
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And it's horizon distributed, so the local shop can order it. That.. just might be the thing.
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:23 AM   #92
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correct. its readily available from most any hobby shop, and comes 100% ready to go out of the box, with everything you need, painted body & all. Ive watched more than a few fathers come in with their kids, watch the vaterra guys out on track turning practice laps, and then go by a car in the hobby shop, and be out on the track 10 min later doing their first laps. The shop offers free practice time with the purchase of a Vaterra, so it helps get them excited about racing.

and just like that - another racer is born, haha.
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:24 AM   #93
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My local track has started a "new to racing" class with the Vaterra V100. For an entry price point of only $250, it comes completly ready to run, with a battery and a multi-chemistry peak charger, as well as a spektrum radio, and brushed motor / esc combo.

The class allows only genuine Vaterra brand upgrades (shocks, springs, pivot balls, pinions, spurs), with exception for the tires and bodies, for which they allow USGT bodies and tires. This really helps prevent the "pay to win" that seems to overtake every class of racing, as the upgrade options from vaterra are limited, and only offer minor tuning and durability upgrades, as opposed to power gains or weight shedding. The ONLY means of power gains comes from gear ratio tuning, which is an important skill to learn for RC, and teaches the balance between performance and motor longevity.

The motor is a closed end bell brushed motor, and replacements cost $20. While its certainly not the fastest around the track, its plenty fast enough to require throttle & brake control to get it around the track smoothly.

The only open option right now is battery choice, but the track is deciding on a spec lipo battery to use going forward, and will maintain a strict sub $40 price point. The charger that comes with the car is multi-chemistry, and can charge lipo batteries, so an upgrade isn't a requirement.

its has taken a bit of time, but is starting to show some progress, and attracting enough people to hold weekly club races.

While the chassis isn't as adjustable as a typical touring chassis, it does have some points of adjustment, and is a 1/10 scale 190mm 4WD chassis, so moving from this to a more standard touring chassis for USGT racing is less dramatic a change in driving style than a mini or pan car for example.

the advantage to this entry point, is not only the similarity of driving style, but that the radio, receiver, tires, body, and charger are all upwards compatible for other racing classes like USGT. Even the chassis - while not nearly as adjustable as a spec touring chassis, can be competitive in USGT with a skilled driver behind the wheel, and a 21.5 brushless powerplant.

Several of the local Vaterra guys have swapped the brushed motors for 21.5 brushless, and turned competitive laps in the USGT class using the V100 chassis. One was even able to turn USGT pace lap times on the stock brushed motor, showing everyone how much driving skill and practice can really impact your times.

im not saying this is thee solution to entry level racing, but it is showing signs of success locally.
I've read of few places trying the Vaterra V100. I've got 3 of them. Things are tanks. Around 22mph with stock motor and gearing.
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:33 AM   #94
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they really are. Super durable - which is good for first time racers trying to get around a track, and go plenty fast around the track to the point where you have to actually learn how to drive it.

I really hope it takes off the way mini racing did. It would be great to have a true entry level class, that can serve as a stepping stone to other classes.
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Old 11-17-2016, 01:32 PM   #95
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I like this. And it ~forces~ interaction, and participation. Friends will be made.

It's never bad for the shop to have ~something to sell~. Provided the supply chain is there. M05, that's easy. TD10, that's hard.

*snip*
I can't turn to my coworker and have them do that.

I suppose I'm trying to disconnect the builder from the driver.
We have to make ourselves seen, we aren't some underground private club or something, the more the merrier. About the shop, it can have a HK cheap car and electronics but that's it, the less the better as it will be more efficient and we know most noobs won't stick around. Instead of having a cool looking car that is suitable for RC (a low grade tamiya) it will have a car that will be capable of racing and have the ability have it's flaws overcome. If the noob sees a good car on the track it will want the same good handling. A cheap car with good suspension geometry and fluid filled shocks are way better to keep noobs interested. My first car was a TT01 and I can't recommend it to anyone.

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So is the RJ Speed pan car that bad of a car? I mean, you can get into one of those for really cheap, even if you had nothing. Tamiya has the TT02 line of touring cars with some right at the $100-$110 mark. If everyone has the same car it doesn't really matter if they suck right? Everyone deals with the same handling issues/flaws?
Would you play a game where the physics were skewed? Using videogames as an example, you see lots of pro gamers playing fast paced difficult to master games, but how many millions play candy crush? It's a simple game, people are hooked right up, then they fed up and go to new games or search a bigger challenge.

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I would have to argue the concept of not counting laps. If you want to get people hooked through loaner cars, etc, at least some people will need the data from actual counted laps. See that improvement of 0.2 a lap average from last week, and besting your own hot lap by 0.263, and losing to the same guy but you were 0.740 seconds closer than last time.

If someone ISN'T interested in tracking this sort of thing IMX they are much less likely to become a regular.
"It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning".
That is just personality, some guys are the Time Attack genre, others prefer beating X drivers or winning or not finish last. If you or anyone else want timing system please run the one made by Howard Cano, it's close to DIY and fulfil the role perfectly while being way more cheaper than the evil ones available.
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Old 11-17-2016, 01:48 PM   #96
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So one of the things that I keep hearing about is a lack of "adjustability" but IMHO, that is PROBLEM with bringing new people into the hobby. As a parent that also wants to race with my boys do I want to deal with setting up caster, camber, ride height, front and rear diff adjustments, soft front springs, hard rear springs.... Oh, and multiply that by 3 so we can enjoy it as a family!

I truly think that a simple spec rubber tired, whatever body you love, pan car class with retail dollar limits set on electronics (battery, esc, and motor) would get people out to race. Limited adjustments, easier to maintain than TC, charge a battery and race kind of mentality. That would also allow people who's skill, budget, or desire increased to easily move into WGTR where they could play with all of the setup and spend go fast electronics.
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Old 11-17-2016, 03:15 PM   #97
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On our track we have a rookie class.. it's like race what you have..
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Yes! The cheapest race car is the one you already own, whatever it is.
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Old 11-17-2016, 04:04 PM   #98
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Our local track recently started up a Tamiya Team Hahn (big rig truck) race class. Everyone must run it box stock with the exception of ball bearings and a spec battery. It is really affordable and lots of interest in it so far.
Here in CO I saw a couple of races with what they called 5280 Trucks. Same rules and was quite entertaining to watch.
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Old 11-17-2016, 04:08 PM   #99
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So one of the things that I keep hearing about is a lack of "adjustability" but IMHO, that is PROBLEM with bringing new people into the hobby. As a parent that also wants to race with my boys do I want to deal with setting up caster, camber, ride height, front and rear diff adjustments, soft front springs, hard rear springs.... Oh, and multiply that by 3 so we can enjoy it as a family!

I truly think that a simple spec rubber tired, whatever body you love, pan car class with retail dollar limits set on electronics (battery, esc, and motor) would get people out to race. Limited adjustments, easier to maintain than TC, charge a battery and race kind of mentality. That would also allow people who's skill, budget, or desire increased to easily move into WGTR where they could play with all of the setup and spend go fast electronics.
I think this is where Vintage Trans Am came in. Everyone runs the same tires/wheels and there were limits on almost everything. You could bring out an old chassis because it was slow enough that you could set the car up once and just race.
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Old 11-17-2016, 04:29 PM   #100
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You want to make them hooked with the least money possible, the long-term doesn't mean anything.
What do you mean by "hooked"? Getting them in the door is all well and good, but if they only show up a couple of times, I wouldn't call that being hooked. We want to encourage new racers while minimising the number of people that dump some cash and don't stick with it.
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Old 11-17-2016, 06:08 PM   #101
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"If you or anyone else want timing system please run the one made by Howard Cano, it's close to DIY and fulfil the role perfectly while being way more cheaper than the evil ones available." I'm perfectly happy with my AMB/RCSP system, thanks. I certainly don't begrudge anyone running something else. Doesn't have anything to do with a budget racing class, of course.
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Old 11-17-2016, 06:09 PM   #102
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You will always have more racers that quit after a short time than racers that stick to it for decades. That's just the way it is, but you can only hope to slightly increase the percentage of those who stick with it by producing a 1/10 scale rtr that is already down to 1350grams with a roar legal 17.5t motor/esc combo and 2.4ghz radio... Racetracks can then find a way to get these newbies to buy their transponders after X amount of racedays. The problem is that manufacturers don't produce rtr's that can be raced at roar events straight out of the box...I bought my tc4 rtr to race stock, only to have everything changed and modded to make weight and participate. Most would have quit a long time ago, but not me.....
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Old 11-17-2016, 06:18 PM   #103
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Most would have quit a long time ago, but not me.....
I thought you haven't raced in years.
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Old 11-17-2016, 07:18 PM   #104
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The NY carpet track was closed from 2012 until last September.....
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Old 11-17-2016, 08:55 PM   #105
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You will always have more racers that quit after a short time than racers that stick to it for decades. That's just the way it is, but you can only hope to slightly increase the percentage of those who stick with it by producing a 1/10 scale rtr that is already down to 1350grams with a roar legal 17.5t motor/esc combo and 2.4ghz radio... Racetracks can then find a way to get these newbies to buy their transponders after X amount of racedays. The problem is that manufacturers don't produce rtr's that can be raced at roar events straight out of the box...I bought my tc4 rtr to race stock, only to have everything changed and modded to make weight and participate. Most would have quit a long time ago, but not me.....
Actually there is now. BSR BT-4 touring car is roar approved with a 21.5 system. It's what I used this summer. Under $200 for the RTR. Or kit avaible. It's also avalilable with a 13.5 system as a almost ready to run.
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