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Old 11-16-2016, 07:22 AM   #46
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I'm glad this started such a deep discussion...

I am really liking the breakout class. That seems like the best solution.
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Old 11-16-2016, 11:21 AM   #47
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A long time ago...

RC racing started, and became very popular. It became evident that many racers were becoming discouraged by the rapid advancement of this new hobby/sport. So a class was constructed to try and keep lesser skilled racers involved, and hopefully have a stepping stone class for people to get started. Some very strict rules were put in place on motors to try and equal out the performance of the cars. It worked for a while, but the people began to figure out it was easier to stay in the slower class and win, instead of moving up to the advanced class.

That class was called...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Wait for it...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
STOCK!!!

To this day I double face palm every time I read "Stock, or VTA, or USGT was never meant to be an entry level class."

And why I believe in this most undeniable truth of radio controlled auto racing:

There is no stock. There never has been. There never will be.
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Old 11-16-2016, 11:32 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml View Post
A long time ago...

RC racing started, and became very popular. It became evident that many racers were becoming discouraged by the rapid advancement of this new hobby/sport. So a class was constructed to try and keep lesser skilled racers involved, and hopefully have a stepping stone class for people to get started. Some very strict rules were put in place on motors to try and equal out the performance of the cars. It worked for a while, but the people began to figure out it was easier to stay in the slower class and win, instead of moving up to the advanced class.

That class was called...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Wait for it...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
STOCK!!!

To this day I double face palm every time I read "Stock, or VTA, or USGT was never meant to be an entry level class."

And why I believe in this most undeniable truth of radio controlled auto racing:

There is no stock. There never has been. There never will be.



You're right. Stock was intended for the exact reason but the sad truth is.. It is has a huge following of skilled racers (driver wise) & set up wise.. and has bumped it up to the class it is today. Around the world, but especially North America... North American Racers looooooove stock racing
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Old 11-16-2016, 11:37 AM   #49
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Default My cheap sedan pkg

Car: $79.90 (Tamiya TT02 Enoes at RCMart)
Tires: $0 (Included in TT02 kit)
Battery: $15.99 (Hobbyking Zippy 4000 hard case)
Radio: $22.90 (GoolRC TG3 on eBay FREE shipping)
Servo: $3.25 (S3003 MG servo on eBay FREE shipping)
Body: $0 (Included in TT02 kit)
Paint: $7 (one color)
Glue: $6 (thin CA)
Motor and ESC: $0 (Included in TT02 kit)
Charger: 31.15 (Hobbyking Accucell S60 AC Charger)

The above setup (excluding shipping costs) is under $175 USD. You would still need some basic tools and misc. items like servo tape, etc.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:24 PM   #50
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You're right. Stock was intended for the exact reason but the sad truth is.. It is has a huge following of skilled racers (driver wise) & set up wise.. and has bumped it up to the class it is today. Around the world, but especially North America... North American Racers looooooove stock racing
The problem today is mod is too fast. Even in 12th scale they're changing to mod class to 6.5 turn and blinky. Apparently it's working, entries for mod 1/12 are up.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:33 PM   #51
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Maybe, instead of limiting power, they need to start limiting traction, and adding weight. have a 4 or 6kg class, running on tamiya hard rubber. :-)

I can see how that would fall down a hole of needing real brakes... but it's a thought.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:11 PM   #52
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Back in the day "stock" meant the crappy motor which came with the kit. Now "stock" means buy a top dollar kit and a $100 dollar motor and $100 motor tuner to set timing properly and a good battery and and and and.......

Interest would grow if there was a class where die hard racers kept their nose out of. Maybe I'm just bitter, lol. Until some attitudes change it will be hard to get and keep racers.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:20 PM   #53
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Brushed 27t motor with $20 limit.
4 cell nihm with $10 per cell limit. (not including bars)

Bring back olde school stock 1/12th scale.
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Old 11-16-2016, 05:57 PM   #54
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I'm glad this started such a deep discussion...

I am really liking the breakout class. That seems like the best solution.
The breakout class sounds possible. But not sure if Windy City wants a bunch of random trucks on that nice new carpet.
The thing I'm getting from this thread is the racer point of view. I'm guessing that most here got into RC because of racing. Most of us didn't. You'd probably be shocked how few know about it.
To bring new people into track isn't as simple as finding a class. You have get people to the track. Get them used to running in the track structure. Get them used to driving with others. Might be suprised how many of us run mostly solo. Think I've run 15 times with others this year. That's more then previous 2 years combined. And I drive 2-3 times a day.
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Old 11-16-2016, 06:06 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Nerobro View Post
Maybe, instead of limiting power, they need to start limiting traction, and adding weight. have a 4 or 6kg class, running on tamiya hard rubber. :-)

I can see how that would fall down a hole of needing real brakes... but it's a thought.
Overpowered cars with minimal traction is probably not going to make things easier for beginners. If anything it may frustrate them as it'll be harder to drive. I'd especially hate to be a marshal when a 6kg TC with a fast motor and no traction is barrelling for my ankles.
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Old 11-16-2016, 07:44 PM   #56
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The breakout class sounds possible. But not sure if Windy City wants a bunch of random trucks on that nice new carpet.
Sadly, i'm not familiar with the logistics of running anything but road cars on carpet. :-) Excepting my living room of course.

Quote:
To bring new people into track isn't as simple as finding a class. You have get people to the track. Get them used to running in the track structure. Get them used to driving with others. Might be suprised how many of us run mostly solo. Think I've run 15 times with others this year. That's more then previous 2 years combined. And I drive 2-3 times a day.
I've been playing with R/C stuff since 87 or so. The most fun has always been with people. I can ~get~ people to come to the track. Getting people to buy gear, is the trouble.

When I had a local slot car track, that had decent rentals, I could easy get people to come out to do laps, or even race.

That's not really an option with R/C cars. I haven't asked at windy city; harbor hobbies advertised rentals, but.. when asked they didn't have any.

Annoyingly, a good FPV quadcopter, with everything to fly, is cheaper than my VTA car. I can take someone out to buzz trees and annoy squirrels for less money than I can take them to go r/c car racing. And that's a toy that's useful many more places than just at a race track. (I'm not really trying to set up a comparison, but it shows how reasonable it is to bring someone with)
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Old 11-16-2016, 08:31 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Nerobro View Post
Sadly, i'm not familiar with the logistics of running anything but road cars on carpet. :-) Excepting my living room of course.



I've been playing with R/C stuff since 87 or so. The most fun has always been with people. I can ~get~ people to come to the track. Getting people to buy gear, is the trouble.

When I had a local slot car track, that had decent rentals, I could easy get people to come out to do laps, or even race.

That's not really an option with R/C cars. I haven't asked at windy city; harbor hobbies advertised rentals, but.. when asked they didn't have any.

Annoyingly, a good FPV quadcopter, with everything to fly, is cheaper than my VTA car. I can take someone out to buzz trees and annoy squirrels for less money than I can take them to go r/c car racing. And that's a toy that's useful many more places than just at a race track. (I'm not really trying to set up a comparison, but it shows how reasonable it is to bring someone with)
I'm gonna try to get up to Windy City Sunday. Figure with big event Saturday might be little less crowded Sunday morning. What about an 1/18 vehicles? Never run on carpet so no idea how'd they would run. Associate has the 1/18 Apex. And Dromida now has a touring car.
There's another from my local store that's also interested in checking place out. Think he was a slot car guy also, he's been mostly MiniZ stuff till this year.
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Old 11-16-2016, 08:40 PM   #58
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I've not raced enough to know where racers spend all their money in these classes.

Seems you could try to create a spec claimer class that runs a cheap spec battery, a spec motor, and had additional rules that would discourage people from spending to win. Such as allowing another racer to claim any other racers motor for a fee.

I also purchased a RTR touring kit from Hobby King that came with 21.5 and blindly capable ESC for under $200. I'm sure I could go set it down on the track with battery, charger, etc for less than $350.

IMO inexpensive (relative) start up cost and shorter time to race would allow people to take a crack at it. My first indoor race night was 6:30 to midnight to race 3 heats and a main. I left with 4 or 5 mains left to go. That's 7 hours to get on the track for 20-25 minutes.
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Old 11-16-2016, 08:46 PM   #59
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I personally think the best option is the use of a "Sportsman" class at a race track. This class is never really used to its full potential and thats a problem IMO. A sportsman class can be structured in a way that allows beginners to get any on-road car they want with a limit of say max 17.5 motors(Stock Sedan). So if someone wants to race a TCS Mini they can...if someone wants to race VTA setup car but not race with regular VTA racers until they get the hang of it then so be it...same thing for someone wanting to run 17.5 sedan they can run in a class thats all about beginners with out being pigeon holed into getting a lesser quality car that they cant grow with. This was always a class that was around but seemed to die off about 5-6 years ago. No racer that has been racing for years is going to run in this class and you also have rules setup that once you start to show dominance you move up the actual class that your car is setup for...IE Stock Sedan, VTA or whatever it is.

Like its been said none of the racing classes(Stock Sedan, USGT or VTA) are necessarily entry level....but a class like sportsman is exactly that.

I have been running an on-road race series in the IL, IN and Wis area for over 14 years and the Sportsman class was a great place to grow racers. The bad thing is as on-road numbers have died down this class has not be used as much. We still offer it as a part of our series but is rarely used. I think that at our next series race at Windy City this Saturday that we will have a group of sportsman racers and that maybe this will help jump start this class at WCRC because its IMO the best option for getting people into racing. It lets them race what car they want with out the "pressure" of racing with the season vets if you will of that class.

Also nothing about RC racing is cheap its a Hobby...and you spend what you can afford. If you have a 300$ budget so be it but do not hold back someone who has a 1000$ budget by making them get some cheap car because they are starting out. We as racers/hobbyist need to understand that we all do not view this the same way and being limiting is not being inclusive....thats why a sportsman class is great then a racer can get what he or she wants and have a group of racers to grow with until you feel you can make the next step.
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Old 11-16-2016, 09:00 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Billy Kelly View Post
I'm gonna try to get up to Windy City Sunday. Figure with big event Saturday might be little less crowded Sunday morning. What about an 1/18 vehicles? Never run on carpet so no idea how'd they would run. Associate has the 1/18 Apex. And Dromida now has a touring car.
There's another from my local store that's also interested in checking place out. Think he was a slot car guy also, he's been mostly MiniZ stuff till this year.
There was some yelling when I was there Saturday about "only 1/10 on the road track" But I suspect that was a "get your 1/16 truggy off while the 1/10 guys are running" I didn't push the question, my 1/24 SCT didnt' get any unwanted attention on the off road course.

If someone wants to run weekend days with ~anything~ cheap, I'll buy one, and show up. :-) Provided we can get the venue to agree ;-) It is ~their~ playground after all.

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I've not raced enough to know where racers spend all their money in these classes.
Classes can become a "race for the edges". The tighter the rules, often the crazier things get. Loopholes appear, and people take advantage. For example, if tires arent' regulated, compounds get soft, wear rates get HIGH, tires become a huge cost.


Quote:
Seems you could try to create a spec claimer class that runs a cheap spec battery, a spec motor, and had additional rules that would discourage people from spending to win. Such as allowing another racer to claim any other racers motor for a fee.
I've always been a fan of claimer.

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kit from Hobby King that came with 21.5
I'm really trying to avoid the mail order direction. First, it stops "lets try it tonight" and it hurts the shop because they can't turn around and sell a walk-in a setup. They were able to sell me the TC4 on a whim. Now, I'm not against mail-order, and my comptuer room shows it. I've got 12 or 14 models in here, and only a few came from shops.

Quote:
My first indoor race night was 6:30 to midnight to race 3 heats and a main. I left with 4 or 5 mains left to go. That's 7 hours to get on the track for 20-25 minutes.
If that's the regular result, you might find my TC4 on the market soon. ;-)
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