1/10 On-Road Racing - How cheap can it be done? Lets get new drivers hooked.
11-14-2016, 07:50 PM
#31
There really aren't any LHS's in Ohio anymore for racers. Mostly just RTR offroad stuff and a sprinkling of tires and small things. Hobbytown is OK, but they're pretty much an extention of Amain hobbies right now anyways.
Our local carpet track has nearly everything needed for it's cheapo "spec" class. Chances are I could even have them put together an entire car and everything for a price. I don't think they'd mind at all ordering just about everything for a newb, or at least provide a comprehensive list of everything needed that they can't get a hold of.
Our local carpet track has nearly everything needed for it's cheapo "spec" class. Chances are I could even have them put together an entire car and everything for a price. I don't think they'd mind at all ordering just about everything for a newb, or at least provide a comprehensive list of everything needed that they can't get a hold of.
11-14-2016, 08:02 PM
#32
This is not a cheap hobby. Never was. Never will be. I have seen too many people try to get into it cheap and end up just not enjoying it, or spending a lot more in the long run.
The M05 chassis sucks. Out of the box on CRC carpet they can pretty much not be kept on their wheels. Sure with some tuning and adjustments they can be driveable, but who knows how to do that their first time racing?
The key is to make it justified for the people that do end up spending a few hundred dollars to get into it. This is not just a on-road or off-road thing. Its the hobby in general. Have you ever slowed down or crashed out to allow a new guy to win? Or at least podium? Not saying everyone should pull over and let the new guy win, but when the pits is a hostile place, where nobody talks to and welcomes the new guy and helps him he will not enjoy it as much. I can honestly say (at least from my experiences) this is more of a problem in on-road than off road. On-road guys dont seem to like new people, experienced or not. Off-road seems more welcoming to newcomers.
But the answer is not to cheapen the hobby, but to make the hobby better overall.
The M05 chassis sucks. Out of the box on CRC carpet they can pretty much not be kept on their wheels. Sure with some tuning and adjustments they can be driveable, but who knows how to do that their first time racing?
The key is to make it justified for the people that do end up spending a few hundred dollars to get into it. This is not just a on-road or off-road thing. Its the hobby in general. Have you ever slowed down or crashed out to allow a new guy to win? Or at least podium? Not saying everyone should pull over and let the new guy win, but when the pits is a hostile place, where nobody talks to and welcomes the new guy and helps him he will not enjoy it as much. I can honestly say (at least from my experiences) this is more of a problem in on-road than off road. On-road guys dont seem to like new people, experienced or not. Off-road seems more welcoming to newcomers.
But the answer is not to cheapen the hobby, but to make the hobby better overall.
11-14-2016, 08:33 PM
#33
Tech Rookie
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner
1/4Mile just hit the nail on the head. The cost is certainly a factor in ANY situation, but that cost is way more digestible when you or your kids are enjoying the thing that you spent money on. I have 3 kids, 2 of which are boys who play hockey and golf and my daughter does competitive cheer. It costs a fortune but my wife and I figure out a way to make it work because we all love it.
Now that we have been by WCRC my interest has been reinvigorated so I plunked down a bunch of money on a CRC 1/12th scale and both of the boys want to start racing so I am going to get the Xray T1 that is hanging in my garage back on the road as well as the TC3 next to it and try to find another TC3/4 at a good price so all 3 of us can share in the fun together. I'm going to try to do that as cheap as possible for them to race some VTA and learn there since they are young and I'd hope that they do it long enough to enjoy it with their kids some day. ALL of this depends upon going to the track and largely being surrounded by good people. There is so much isolation in life already with video games and phones the last thing I want to bring them to the track for is to huddle up on the bench and not interact with others.
Now that we have been by WCRC my interest has been reinvigorated so I plunked down a bunch of money on a CRC 1/12th scale and both of the boys want to start racing so I am going to get the Xray T1 that is hanging in my garage back on the road as well as the TC3 next to it and try to find another TC3/4 at a good price so all 3 of us can share in the fun together. I'm going to try to do that as cheap as possible for them to race some VTA and learn there since they are young and I'd hope that they do it long enough to enjoy it with their kids some day. ALL of this depends upon going to the track and largely being surrounded by good people. There is so much isolation in life already with video games and phones the last thing I want to bring them to the track for is to huddle up on the bench and not interact with others.
11-15-2016, 10:25 AM
#34
Many years ago we tried a mini class using the Tamiya M03. This was targeted at novice and intermediate level drivers. The rules were simple, you were allowed to upgrade the kit with bearings, basic oil shocks and replace some parts for durability; C-hubs, knuckles etc.
You had to run a Tamiya silver can motor and a 6 cell NiMh battery. Cutting or grinding the chassis to save weight not allowed. You had to run Tamiya M-chassis tires and insert. It was many a racers gateway drug into on road racing. Cost was reasonable and you didn't need top shelf of anything to compete and keep on par with everyone else.
The more seasoned on road racers figured out simple ways to make the cars drivable without spending a ton. Things like gluing the sideways to prevent traction rolls and which Tamiya tires worked best on our carpet. This info made its way to newcomers so they could buy the correct stuff right off the bat and not waste time/money on things they didnt need.
The really fast guys and veteran racers left the class alone because who wants to race a junky Tamiya mini anyways. This worked great for a while!
Then as all good things this too came to an end. The fast guys and the really competitive types started seeing what fun the class was and they started jumping into it. Didn't take long before people were buying boxes of silver can motors to find the "gem" of the batch or doing a really old trick of turning the magnets in the can to advance timing. People started pushing the rules of allowed aftermarket parts and addons and not caring what the spirit of the class was supposed to be. Guys would show up with more mini tires in their pit bag then 1/12 tires and have a week long process of how to treat and store the tamiya tires to extract every little bit of traction possible from them. The class rules were changed to remove the silver can motor and goto a spec brushless. Now speeds were the same but the cost to start out soared. Didn't take long for some to find the 3Racing speed gears for the mini and throw them in. Back to square one we go.
What the class started as is dead. Killed by people trying to win instead of leaving it alone for new racers to have fun with it. I lost interest along the way after I started to notice too many people had more money tied up in a M-chassis then I had in a competitive touring class. What really pissed me off was some racers started freaking on the beginner drivers during the race for hitting them, not getting out of the way, etc. If you are a seasoned whiny driver then give your M-chassis to someone who appreciates it then grow a pair and race 1/12 Mod where your place on the podium has to be truly earned. Rant over.
In the end the lessons to take in my eyes are this:
-Tamiya M-chassis is fine for beginners to race with, just keep the class to a couple chassis types, M03, M05. Enforce strict upgrade and tire limits!
-Keep the veteran racers out!! Set rules like if this is your 10th season racing or if you are consistent A-main driver then this is not your class.
-The motor problem is real. The silver cans are not all equal. Have everyone toss their motor in a bucket before the race and do a handout. Just something to even the odds and take away tempation to bend the rules.
-Laughing while on drivers stand is mandatory!
You had to run a Tamiya silver can motor and a 6 cell NiMh battery. Cutting or grinding the chassis to save weight not allowed. You had to run Tamiya M-chassis tires and insert. It was many a racers gateway drug into on road racing. Cost was reasonable and you didn't need top shelf of anything to compete and keep on par with everyone else.
The more seasoned on road racers figured out simple ways to make the cars drivable without spending a ton. Things like gluing the sideways to prevent traction rolls and which Tamiya tires worked best on our carpet. This info made its way to newcomers so they could buy the correct stuff right off the bat and not waste time/money on things they didnt need.
The really fast guys and veteran racers left the class alone because who wants to race a junky Tamiya mini anyways. This worked great for a while!
Then as all good things this too came to an end. The fast guys and the really competitive types started seeing what fun the class was and they started jumping into it. Didn't take long before people were buying boxes of silver can motors to find the "gem" of the batch or doing a really old trick of turning the magnets in the can to advance timing. People started pushing the rules of allowed aftermarket parts and addons and not caring what the spirit of the class was supposed to be. Guys would show up with more mini tires in their pit bag then 1/12 tires and have a week long process of how to treat and store the tamiya tires to extract every little bit of traction possible from them. The class rules were changed to remove the silver can motor and goto a spec brushless. Now speeds were the same but the cost to start out soared. Didn't take long for some to find the 3Racing speed gears for the mini and throw them in. Back to square one we go.
What the class started as is dead. Killed by people trying to win instead of leaving it alone for new racers to have fun with it. I lost interest along the way after I started to notice too many people had more money tied up in a M-chassis then I had in a competitive touring class. What really pissed me off was some racers started freaking on the beginner drivers during the race for hitting them, not getting out of the way, etc. If you are a seasoned whiny driver then give your M-chassis to someone who appreciates it then grow a pair and race 1/12 Mod where your place on the podium has to be truly earned. Rant over.
In the end the lessons to take in my eyes are this:
-Tamiya M-chassis is fine for beginners to race with, just keep the class to a couple chassis types, M03, M05. Enforce strict upgrade and tire limits!
-Keep the veteran racers out!! Set rules like if this is your 10th season racing or if you are consistent A-main driver then this is not your class.
-The motor problem is real. The silver cans are not all equal. Have everyone toss their motor in a bucket before the race and do a handout. Just something to even the odds and take away tempation to bend the rules.
-Laughing while on drivers stand is mandatory!
11-15-2016, 11:15 AM
#35
+1 Keep the veterans and/or experienced guys out.
Another +1 for the TT-01 and TT-02 chassis. They come with esc and motor and are perfect for fun racing and entry. Untuned use only! In Germany the chassis kits with body and electronics are starting at 90€. The chassis only starts at 50€.
Another +1 for the TT-01 and TT-02 chassis. They come with esc and motor and are perfect for fun racing and entry. Untuned use only! In Germany the chassis kits with body and electronics are starting at 90€. The chassis only starts at 50€.
11-15-2016, 12:13 PM
#36
+1 Keep the veterans and/or experienced guys out.
Another +1 for the TT-01 and TT-02 chassis. They come with esc and motor and are perfect for fun racing and entry. Untuned use only! In Germany the chassis kits with body and electronics are starting at 90€. The chassis only starts at 50€.
Another +1 for the TT-01 and TT-02 chassis. They come with esc and motor and are perfect for fun racing and entry. Untuned use only! In Germany the chassis kits with body and electronics are starting at 90€. The chassis only starts at 50€.
^This
We just started a Hahn TT-01 Box stock class (With bearings) to our local track. We will be running it for the first time this weekend and we have about 5 of us who opted to build them first and run them for everyone to see. For under $200 Canadian it is a very good starting point. Like mentioned the Mini class is a hit or miss / Needs to decent parts to make it around a carpet track without frustrations.
I'm no novice but for the folks who have no idea about set up (Camber, droop, roll centers, gearing, caster, etc etc etc. I feel the TT series couldn't be more perfect as there is nothing to adjust except shock hole location and minor gearing option. At least someone can get their foot in the door and have some fun and learn along the way.
VTA, USGT, 17.5 TC all are pretty competitive where I am from (VTA on the bottom) and set up is just as important as anything. So many people give up before they can get up and going with some decent laps and never get to experience that euphoria feeling of on road
11-15-2016, 01:44 PM
#38
I still run my m03 with silvercans, and it really is discouraging when a brushless mini pulls my car down the straight like a mod car catching a stock car... I guess I have to park my mini until everyone goes back to racing for fun not anything else...
11-15-2016, 04:27 PM
#40
11-15-2016, 04:36 PM
#41
Personally I would like to see RC go full circle and go back to the days when on road racing was with Tamiya cars in you hobby shop's parking lot. This is the concept that brings the fun back into racing. The TT01 and Mini classes were amazing back then and can be now. Just keep it simple and use the stock equipment. Man I miss my M06 mini. That was the most fun racing I've ever had. Silver Can with bearings and shocks being my only upgrades. That's how you bring racers back into the hobby.
11-15-2016, 05:23 PM
#43
Tech Prophet
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Personally I would like to see RC go full circle and go back to the days when on road racing was with Tamiya cars in you hobby shop's parking lot. This is the concept that brings the fun back into racing. The TT01 and Mini classes were amazing back then and can be now. Just keep it simple and use the stock equipment. Man I miss my M06 mini. That was the most fun racing I've ever had. Silver Can with bearings and shocks being my only upgrades. That's how you bring racers back into the hobby.
Second. While I understand the history of Tamiya. The brand doesn't register with most that got into hobby over last 5-10 years. I've seen 2 Tamiya vehicles in 6 years, 1 was mine. Might bring back the old racer that left when brushless came in, not really gonna bring in the new
We've run 1/18 Dromida vehicles for 2 years. Sometimes it's 5 people. Sometimes it's 15. From 8 to mid 60's. Simple 5 lap sprints. Gets people used to running on a track layout.
11-15-2016, 08:36 PM
#45
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Same with the TC/F1 group that ran at store. 22mph was about average top speed, few were closer to 25mph.
What suprised me was how few of the long time racers actual knew the speed they were running.