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Old 11-14-2016, 03:05 PM   #16
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A Sakura s1/s2 chassis can be found for 120 dollar or even de Hobbyking version (TD10) for 65 dollar..

Do not forget the BD7RS and the Serpent 411 sports.
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Old 11-14-2016, 03:07 PM   #17
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BSR BT-4. RTR with 21.5. $170-190 depending on seller. $30-35 Gravity RC tires. Spur/pinion, around $20. Transponder $80-100.
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Old 11-14-2016, 03:10 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by rescue119 View Post
95% of the used stuff are in great shape.
*snip*
But if you check the different forums daily u will finds deals. If you are patient. Expecially when people are getting out of the hobby.
That's how I get my helicopters, and how I get most of my r/c anything. That doesn't help people who want to race "today." Getting in is hard.

Allow me to share an anecdote. I was at a paintball event in joliet. Directly across the road from Leisure hours. 3 day game, so I took a break to see what the deal was at Leisure hours.

I walked into the pro shop, and I told them I'd like to know what I'd need to buy to get into racing there. The response was opaque, and full of language that only makes sense if you've been racing for a while.

I heard "blinky" and "modified" and some other words, but nothing that made a whole lot of sense. When I asked what it cost, the numbers spiraled out of control. I was shown a $600 on road chassis, a $300 motor and esc setup, and it didn't get better from there.

The answer to "how do I get into racing" netted the response that would be useful for an experienced racer. Not an answer for "here's the best way to start."

My goal, is to find something ~better~ than telling someone "just hang out here a lot, and hope someone will sell you their old gear." That doesn't scale, and takes some real dedication to make happen.

Dedication comes ~after~ they're hooked. Not before they have something to run.

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There are some rtr kits like a tt02e that will have everything u need to start out. So what if it's a silver can motor. Run it until u can upgrade.

U can get into the hobby for 300 or so if you really want to.

And black Friday sales are starting already.
I did some poking around on tower. There are some RTR packages in the $300 range. That's still about 50% higher than i'd like to see ideally. I don't mind slow, slow is good for someone new. (heck, someone like me even...)

Depending on sales is not a useful way to build a racing class. At least if you want it to be sustainable. I'm getting my VTA TC4 setup for $330, because I did some digging around, found reasonable deals, and I have all the support equipment. That also means I didn't spend ~all~ of the money at the local hobby shop, and that's a problem in it's own right.

The upgrade mentality is a problem as well. That makes classes get expensive. Like, if you want to be competitive in mini racing, there are some modifications that are more or less required. EG: shock spacers, oil filled shocks, bearings...

Someone ~should~ be able to walk into a RC shop, say "I want to go racing" and be able to plunk something down on the track for less than the $700-1000 that it is now.

$200 is something I could convince most of my friends to do. $300, is a lot harder. $600 or 700 means they need to come up with the idea themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
The easiest thing to do is not limiting on-road racing to on-road chassis cars.

The Traxxas Slash is perfectly capable of running on most on-road courses and is a great place for a novice/non-serious racer to start in the hobby. The only thing extra that you need to buy is a decent charger or an AC adapter for the included charger. For less than $250 USD you have a car that can be run just about anywhere. Not a bad entry point for people new to the hobby.
If only the local track didn't frown upon running trucks on the road course. I suppose if four people showed up with them, they'd let us run. Publish a worksheet on how to make it a decent roadcourse truck... and viola, you have you race class. I like it. I'll look into it.

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Don't overlook some of the smaller scale RTR cars from companies like Associated, Traxxas, and others.
There's a lot of "I want to run what they're running" so the smaller scale stuff loses the magic. I love my 1/24 Losi SCT, and was running it on the offroad track this weekend.

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The Tamiya M-chassis cars are actually fun to drive. The limited gearing keeps them close and cheap when using Tamiya 540 motors.
I've got M cars on the list. For what little I drove mine, I liked it.

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Finally the best way to get people into the hobby is to put a controller into their hand. If you see interested spectators or people asking you questions while you are at the track, offer to let them drive your car. Of course if they are totally new, turn the speed down a bit. Let them see these aren't fragile little toys or impossible to handle land rockets.

I say we just need to get 'em hooked, make sure the newbies are having fun, and create a family atmosphere for everyone and your local racing will continue to be strong.
I think I've spent eight hours around r/c car tracks. I've been offered the chance to drive two cars. And that was to convince me that buying M05 was a good idea.

I've got some more replying to do when I get home. ;-)

Keep in mind, "I" am the sort of guy to build a car to match the most common class, and go racing. (EG: as soon as the motor shows up, i'm going VTA racing)
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Old 11-14-2016, 03:15 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
Yes! The cheapest race car is the one you already own, whatever it is.

Here is one way to go about it:
Breakout Racing: The Ultimate Spec Class!!!
How does one know, while they're on the drivers stand, that their last lap was discarded?
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Old 11-14-2016, 03:35 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
How does one know, while they're on the drivers stand, that their last lap was discarded?
We set the PC to automatically call out lap times. If you don't hear a time (or the beep when the car crosses the line), then you missed.

The person calling the race also announces any breakout.

One of my racing buddies uses FlipSide for scoring at his home Mini-Z track, and he dug into the software to make the computer automatically announce "Breakout", followed by the driver and the offending lap time. Neat!
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Old 11-14-2016, 04:01 PM   #21
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I was being very conservative with the $1600 quote: the actual cost is more around the $2400 mark if you want to be competitive without borrowing anything from anybody else...If you can use other people's setup tools, chargers, etc, then you can pull it off with $500 easy....
The best is to find someone getting out of the hobby, and buy everything from him...
I tried the cheap route with the tc4, but was not competitive enough for my liking, but after I get my final Mods , I think I will be in the Amain. I am still waiting on my parts, and hope to race against other tc4's when I go back to 360v2 to race: the other tc4's stand no chance at all...lol...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustWill75 View Post
Why would you even say that? It don't cost no way near that much to get started. I swear one day I'm going to visit your home track with a bone stock TC4 and race you.... All just to stop you from posting this type of bull shit......
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Old 11-14-2016, 04:13 PM   #22
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If you had a bunch of people waiting to go in, Hobbyking sometimes has sales on their BSR cars and you can pick up a competent touring car or mini for way cheap. Right now, their M size M.Rage AWD car is selling for $40 from the U.S. East warehouse. Their regular 1/10 touring car has been on sale before for around $60. Order a bunch of those, pick up some of their electronics combos (21.5t motors would be great, fairly cheap, and slow enough for beginners), find some cheap controllers and servos from a site like hobbypartz.com, and a group of people could get in for around $200 each.
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Old 11-14-2016, 04:49 PM   #23
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A RJSpeed Legends can run both on-road and oval and is the cheapest thing you can get.
ESc-22.00, batteries 12.00 front servo ? some tracks have loaner transponders. then charger and transmitter -your choice.
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Old 11-14-2016, 05:02 PM   #24
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I think there is also the need to make sure that the equipment only needs to be bought once. I think the minimum you would spend for a touring car that is a real chassis with actual race potential would not be the cheapest possible, but more like a VBC Ghost Evo, which is $200 and would give the buyer a chassis that can win, not just be a starter kit. Also the Hobbypartz gear will get them running but gear just slightly more expensive, like Hobbywing Justock and V10, can get them to the winners circle.

With everything I have seen, and I actually have done this little thought experiment before with various websites, I think $600-$650 would go from a clean table to a car that has everything it needs to win, including some budget tools, tires, body, a select upgrade or two (double cardan joints in the front axles) AND has gear that doesn't need to be replaced to move up in class.
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Old 11-14-2016, 05:32 PM   #25
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As someone that just stepped into racing over summer. Let me try to give an outsiders point of view.
Car isn't the hard part. I used a RTR BT-4, 3 other new driver used the SpecR chassis. We ran against XRays. Driver ability had more to do with anything them the car choice. All 4 of us were under $350 on cars. Only 1 needed to by a controller.
Only 2 of us had driven courses before. For most starting just making a lap without hitting rails is an accomplishment.
Time factor. Not everyone is willing or can commit to spending 4+ hours for a single class. I know that a low estimate on time.
Extra costs. Most understand that battery and charger, possibly controller if completely new, are part of the cost. It's the transponder. $80-100 to just try something is a hard expense. I know of at least 2 that wanted to try running over summer but wouldn't buy a transponder.
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Old 11-14-2016, 05:34 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
I think there is also the need to make sure that the equipment only needs to be bought once. I think the minimum you would spend for a touring car that is a real chassis with actual race potential would not be the cheapest possible, but more like a VBC Ghost Evo, which is $200 and would give the buyer a chassis that can win, not just be a starter kit. Also the Hobbypartz gear will get them running but gear just slightly more expensive, like Hobbywing Justock and V10, can get them to the winners circle.

With everything I have seen, and I actually have done this little thought experiment before with various websites, I think $600-$650 would go from a clean table to a car that has everything it needs to win, including some budget tools, tires, body, a select upgrade or two (double cardan joints in the front axles) AND has gear that doesn't need to be replaced to move up in class.
I don't think the goal for a beginner should be to get to the winners circle. Most of us seem to make the mistake of taking the mindset "if I had to start from scratch right now, what would I need to be competitive", but they don't take into account that they've got the experience which enables them to be competitive. While I agree that getting the right electronics up front is a good idea, I don't necessarily agree that the same policy applies to the chassis. By the time a from-scratch beginner learns to drive well enough to be competitive and outgrow the chassis, it is going to be pretty worn out anyway and due for a replacement.
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Old 11-14-2016, 05:36 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Kelly View Post
As someone that just stepped into racing over summer. Let me try to give an outsiders point of view.
Car isn't the hard part. I used a RTR BT-4, 3 other new driver used the SpecR chassis. We ran against XRays. Driver ability had more to do with anything them the car choice. All 4 of us were under $350 on cars. Only 1 needed to by a controller.
Only 2 of us had driven courses before. For most starting just making a lap without hitting rails is an accomplishment.
Time factor. Not everyone is willing or can commit to spending 4+ hours for a single class. I know that a low estimate on time.
Extra costs. Most understand that battery and charger, possibly controller if completely new, are part of the cost. It's the transponder. $80-100 to just try something is a hard expense. I know of at least 2 that wanted to try running over summer but wouldn't buy a transponder.
Do your tracks not have club transponders available? They really should if they want to welcome beginners.
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Old 11-14-2016, 05:43 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by JustWill75 View Post
Why would you even say that? It don't cost no way near that much to get started. I swear one day I'm going to visit your home track with a bone stock TC4 and race you.... All just to stop you from posting this type of bull shit......
Lets talk about my local track. VTA is quoted as the cheapest class... and we'll stick with that.

Car: $150
Tires: $40
Battery: $50
Radio: $100
Servo: $20
Body: $30
Paint: $10
Glue: $8
Motor and ESC: $180
Lets guess a charger is $50.

That's $640.. Well $700 after tax, and you'd still need a driver to install. Not quite $1600, but still, a lot of money. That's for a "bone stock" TC4.


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Last time I was in a bike shop, a decent mountain bike costed as much as a Suzuki DRZ400s motorcycle.
A functional enough road bike, that won't hold you back until you're at least cat 3, is about $1000. Mountian bikes start a good bit higher, but they also include suspension components...

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Why not stick to cars competitive in current classes, not start a new one.
Because getting into most of the current classes is way more than you can ask most people to shell out for. Especially at local hobby shop prices.

Quote:
CRC F1 car.
*mostly hobbyking accessories*

Doesn't get cheaper than that
You're still looking at nearly $700, and you've screwed the local track and shops. For this to work, this needs to be "retail, at the shop, price". You can't have a walk-in, buy a car, and drive, if they're waiting 5-20 days for Chinese delivery.

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Otherwise, you're just starting another box stock RTR class that'll last a year,
This, might be the second most relevant comment of the thread. What are other examples? If it's been done before, I'll shut up and go away. IIRC the other box stock classes I've seen, have all been nearly the price of a build it yourself class.

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Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
Speaking of Tamiya M-chassis racing, *snip* You don't have to upgrade these cars to have fun with them.

If you are worried about the spend at all costs to win racers ruining M-chassis classes, just run the Tamiya brushed motors and have a motor claim rule.
That might be the direction to push for. Given there are tamiya kits for $100. The class i want "might already exist." That's why it's in the list in the original post. :-)


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Originally Posted by Eddie_E View Post
It's probably not what you want to hear, but the TC4 that you were pushed into is the best choice for the classes listed at your track.

VTA/USGT are cheap on tires and respond well to suspension changes, i.e. softer Front springs = more steering etc.
It's not that it bothers me, it's that half the benches were empty :-)

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Stay away from the RJSeeed legends or their pan car unless you have a full separate class.
The intent was for this to be a completely separate class.

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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
I think there is also the need to make sure that the equipment only needs to be bought once.
It's a great thought, but it quickly pushes the cost from "It's ok if I never do it again" to "investment." That mental hurdle stops a lot of people from doing things.

For example, when I tell someone I built a quadcopter for $100, they wonder how they can do it. When I explain the cost of the FPV gear, charger, transmitter, and ancillary equipment, they get much, much quieter.

A few weeks ago I ran a class about building airplanes at the local hackerspace. For $100 we got planes, chargers, radios, and in a day built and flew them. Last time I brought it up, the cost was $150, I got zero signups. At $100, I got six.

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I think $600-$650 would go from a clean table to a car that has everything it needs to win, including some budget tools, tires, body, a select upgrade or two (double cardan joints in the front axles) AND has gear that doesn't need to be replaced to move up in class.
That's not LHS prices, that's for sure. :-/ I want people to spend money ~at the shop~ so the shop gets money, and can afford to maintain itself, and put on better events.

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Originally Posted by Billy Kelly View Post
It's the transponder. $80-100 to just try something is a hard expense. I know of at least 2 that wanted to try running over summer but wouldn't buy a transponder.
Transponders being $100 is insane. The company who's making them is missing out on a revenue stream, and is being "just plain dumb" about the market.

Well this has been a lot to chew on. Maybe Mini's are the answer. Or maybe the slash is the key.
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Old 11-14-2016, 06:17 PM   #29
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Well the internet helped some businesses, and ruined others. I don't think most folks go to hobbyshops anymore, unless the shop has exactly what they are looking for on hand...
I also tried buying my stuff once, but I always ended up buying some more until I had all the toys I ever wanted to be somewhat satisfied, but the spending never ends($25000 and counting).... I guess it's human nature to want more in the search for knowledge, but you only live once: enjoy the RC cars responsibly.... You might get away with it like I do, by not spending a dime in other activities like hanging out, smoking, drinking, Drugs, clubbing, chasing too many chicks, etc.....
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Old 11-14-2016, 06:28 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
Do your tracks not have club transponders available? They really should if they want to welcome beginners.
I'm yet to run on a track. I ran with a group that was trying out parking lot racing. No rentals for transponders. This thread started as a new track has opened in the Chicagoland extended area. And there seems to be actual interst in getting outsiders like myself in.
I don't think we know yet if track is having transponder for rental. Their first event is next week. Doesn't look to be best choice for first timer to run.
The probably is that when most ask where to start with touring cars, it's become buy an XRay as standard answer. Then buy X,y,z and then this and this. Suddenly they are looking at $1,000 to just try something.

There are a lot of us that have been in hobby for years. But never get involved with racing. 3 of us that started this summer. Combine have almost 20 years in hobby, but had never run a lap on a course. Or with other touring cars.
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