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Old 10-12-2016, 11:38 PM   #1
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Default Question about F1 racing chassis

Why do all the F1 class chassis use a "live axle" rear suspension?

I've been waiting to buy a proper F1 chassis with double wishbone suspension on the rear end. I have been waiting for around 10 years so far.
I think that live axle design on road cars Totally suck and I refuse to buy one.

From the point of view of someone who appreciates the technology in modern racing cars, I think it is COMPLETELY STUPID to use a live axle that mounts a heavy electric motor attached to the rear axle. Also the static camber, camber curves and roll centre are often compromised. Why do fans of F1 racing seem to think it is still ok to buy model cars with live axles. We are living in 2016, not 1976!
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Old 10-12-2016, 11:55 PM   #2
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Because they work and work well. Have fun waiting.
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:01 AM   #3
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The solid axle is the king. Minimal maintenance, best handling and lightest. Just like a go kart. 3-racing sold a car with independent suspension. Was not really competitive, hence never caught on properly.
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Old 10-13-2016, 04:07 AM   #4
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I am still working on it ~
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Old 10-13-2016, 07:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniRacer View Post
Why do all the F1 class chassis use a "live axle" rear suspension?

I've been waiting to buy a proper F1 chassis with double wishbone suspension on the rear end. I have been waiting for around 10 years so far.
I think that live axle design on road cars Totally suck and I refuse to buy one.

From the point of view of someone who appreciates the technology in modern racing cars, I think it is COMPLETELY STUPID to use a live axle that mounts a heavy electric motor attached to the rear axle. Also the static camber, camber curves and roll centre are often compromised. Why do fans of F1 racing seem to think it is still ok to buy model cars with live axles. We are living in 2016, not 1976!
Go find a used Tamiya F201 and then have fun being at the back of the pack.
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Old 10-13-2016, 07:58 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Go find a used Tamiya F201 and then have fun being at the back of the pack.
Didn't Kyosho make a 4wd full suspension as well. With the shocks all mounted inboard with cantilevers?
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Old 10-13-2016, 08:09 AM   #7
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I would say the main reasons for this are that it works, and the rules allow it. For the amount of suspension travel these chassis normally see, the suspension that you get is enough to tune around most issues.

As far as the rules are concerned, if ROAR decided back in its infancy that all F1 chassis needed to have fully independent suspension, chassis like the F201 would've been more developed than the current solid axle F1 chassis. Even the first open wheel F1 chassis evolved from pan cars and now are more closely related than ever.

And scaling down modern F1 suspension and drivertrain to 1/10 scale to make it work to scale would be overly complex and probably expensive. I'm assuming here but to get moving parts that small and durable enough to take a couple of smacks to the wall would require some pretty exotic materials. Full scale F1 cars are not designed to bounce off walls and keep driving. Most things are replaced between sessions if theres even ANY sign of damage or wear. Imagine, say having to replace a wheel or a set of wheels because of an accident.

Your best bet for a true to scale F1 chassis is Tamiya's F201 (discontinued) but that's got 4WD, if you can live with that. There's also 3Racing's FGX (also discontinued). I think Kyosho way back in the day had a Pureten F1 scale chassis but again, super hard to find.

Personally, I love where F1 is now (both 1:1 and 1:10 scale!). You get multiple choices of bodies, different chassis to choose from, decals to race pretty much any team of your choice. I can live with slightly non-scale suspension.
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Old 10-13-2016, 09:29 AM   #8
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Also 3racing FGX, also welcome to the back of the pack. That car you can build with almost 100% Exotek parts that are super quality, I own one, Awesome shelf queen.
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Old 10-13-2016, 09:47 AM   #9
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Oh man I love looking at my Exotek FGX! On track though, it's no match for a solid axle car.

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Also 3racing FGX, also welcome to the back of the pack. That car you can build with almost 100% Exotek parts that are super quality, I own one, Awesome shelf queen.
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Old 10-13-2016, 01:29 PM   #10
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No bumps on a carpet track. Don't hardly need a suspension at all. But if you lust after a slow, uncompetitive car, get one of the olde IFS F1's.
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Old 10-13-2016, 01:58 PM   #11
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Here is your proper F1 car.

Has fully independent push-rod suspension, hydraulic disc brakes on all 4 wheels, even a semi-monocoque chassis to boot!

http://www.rs5-modelsport.com/index....d=58&Itemid=65



Quote:
Originally Posted by UniRacer View Post
Why do all the F1 class chassis use a "live axle" rear suspension?

I've been waiting to buy a proper F1 chassis with double wishbone suspension on the rear end. I have been waiting for around 10 years so far.
I think that live axle design on road cars Totally suck and I refuse to buy one.

From the point of view of someone who appreciates the technology in modern racing cars, I think it is COMPLETELY STUPID to use a live axle that mounts a heavy electric motor attached to the rear axle. Also the static camber, camber curves and roll centre are often compromised. Why do fans of F1 racing seem to think it is still ok to buy model cars with live axles. We are living in 2016, not 1976!
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Old 10-13-2016, 08:14 PM   #12
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Thanks for all the comment so far.

Just to clarify, if I buy one of the "PROPER F1" racing cars such as Sakura F1, is it legal to race within scale F1 racing rules? I heard many years ago that for pan-car classes, that IRS was normally banned technology.

I am not sure how many championship winning cars have been built by 3 racing. I am fairly confident that if a company such as Serpent or X-ray built a F1 model with proper racing car suspension and the best quality components, then it would be very competitive. Quite simply it will allow better traction to transmit more power through the rear tires. Very important since its a 2WD car after all. I expect more predictable and balanced handling too.

Looking at how much touring car racers put into development of springs, shock tuning, and geometry improvements. We can't neglect the importance of geometry and suspension tuning. Back in year 2000 people were racing HPI RS4, and LOSI street weapon, Express, TA04 etc and thought they were competitive cars. Let's not have a closed mind to looking at improved racing technology.
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Old 10-13-2016, 08:21 PM   #13
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You start a troll thread and then call into question the designs of manufacturers you name with pancar designs that work at the highest levels? You don't think they have already thought it through? A 9 post troll.
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Old 10-13-2016, 08:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniRacer View Post
Thanks for all the comment so far.

Just to clarify, if I buy one of the "PROPER F1" racing cars such as Sakura F1, is it legal to race within scale F1 racing rules? I heard many years ago that for pan-car classes, that IRS was normally banned technology.

I am not sure how many championship winning cars have been built by 3 racing. I am fairly confident that if a company such as Serpent or X-ray built a F1 model with proper racing car suspension and the best quality components, then it would be very competitive. Quite simply it will allow better traction to transmit more power through the rear tires. Very important since its a 2WD car after all. I expect more predictable and balanced handling too.

Looking at how much touring car racers put into development of springs, shock tuning, and geometry improvements. We can't neglect the importance of geometry and suspension tuning. Back in year 2000 people were racing HPI RS4, and LOSI street weapon, Express, TA04 etc and thought they were competitive cars. Let's not have a closed mind to looking at improved racing technology.
And yet the much simpler pan cars tend to run circles around touring cars. Complexity isn't always faster. Also, I'm still running a TC3 from the 2000 era and it's still competitive.
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Old 10-13-2016, 08:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniRacer View Post
Thanks for all the comment so far.

Just to clarify, if I buy one of the "PROPER F1" racing cars such as Sakura F1, is it legal to race within scale F1 racing rules? I heard many years ago that for pan-car classes, that IRS was normally banned technology.

I am not sure how many championship winning cars have been built by 3 racing. I am fairly confident that if a company such as Serpent or X-ray built a F1 model with proper racing car suspension and the best quality components, then it would be very competitive. Quite simply it will allow better traction to transmit more power through the rear tires. Very important since its a 2WD car after all. I expect more predictable and balanced handling too.

Looking at how much touring car racers put into development of springs, shock tuning, and geometry improvements. We can't neglect the importance of geometry and suspension tuning. Back in year 2000 people were racing HPI RS4, and LOSI street weapon, Express, TA04 etc and thought they were competitive cars. Let's not have a closed mind to looking at improved racing technology.
Lets not have a closed mind, but you've closed your mind to the current tech?
Those cars were competitive with that generation of cars. Have you seen the 1/12th scale cars? They're the fastest thing in RC, faster than the 1/8th onroads. The less parts to a drive train the faster the car will be, lighter and more agile.
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