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Old 01-10-2006, 12:50 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by nnick
I might be wrong but the sentence "Typical 4100Mah ...." means that they did some sort of testing. i don't know what or how accurate is but they did something. I'm sure they do same tests on all batteries they receive

NNick - sorry again, but no. This information will have been taken from the data sheet supplied with the cells. As Rick Hohwart says, it does not matter what is in the cells as that is not part of the approval.

It is quite clear, 1.2v nominal voltage, and the 'sub-C' dimensions published in the BRCA/EFRA/ROAR/IFMAR rulebook. That is all.

I am sorry to hear from Anders that EFRA now have two approval lists per year. This is very backward step for reducing costs in racing, as it means that cells you buy may not be current for more than six months. In the BRCA, cells you buy now from the current list are usable in our competitions from 1 April 2006 to 31 March 2007.

We in the UK know now what cells will be allowed, giving us 10 weeks to gather information about performance before we buy any. Once we have made our decision, we can buy them and know that they can be used for 12 months without anything else being released that makes our expensive cells obsolete. I feel sorry for all the other EFRA countries who run their National races to EFRA rules - you have just made this very expensive!!
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Old 01-10-2006, 01:21 PM   #92
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If a racer competes at the top level of his national championship he would know by now that even if the rules were consistent for the whole 12 months of the year, half way through the season it is almost absolutely necessary to upgrade his battery packs with new ones, regardless of what storing methods he is using.

This is simply because even if the cells have the same exact shrink wrap, size, and weight, we all know by now that inside a lot of improvements are being made from batch to batch by the manufacturers.

Thus I don't think that EFRA's method is wrong in anyway.

Actually, I think it is irrational at large events such as EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS, U.S.A. & JAPAN National Championships and IFMAR WORLDS not to allow the use of the most up to date equipment that is available in the market and force the racers to run with 12 month old batteries.. (well not literally, but technically, I think you get my point..)
At such events, trying to control the cost would be nice, but it is not applicable as there are always ways to get a small advantage by investing a lot of money in some kind of detail that can make the necessary difference in performance.
I was present at the 2004 worlds in Florida and was very impressed with the organization, preparation and expenses that some of the top teams had committed to in order to increase the chance of winning..
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Old 01-10-2006, 01:43 PM   #93
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John, good points. Let me also add to my post by saying that in the UK, the largest majority of our racers compete in non-National 'open' meetings in the Stock and 19T-Spec classes. For these drivers it is not necessary to change packs so often as the duration is not the issue, and having the best cells is not the key to winning when we use control tyres and control motors (Stock and Spec).

The problem is that when it comes to buying new cells, if there are more than one type of new cell you don't know which one to buy. It is very expensive to buy (say) IB cells only to find that the (say) GP cells are better. In this case, the driver may have to buy three or four sets of cells each year. With our system, we have time to decide which cells to buy, and most people make a decision which is 'right first time' for them.

In the UK we like the single list per year because it makes it easy for all the racers to understand what is going on, they believe it saves them money, and that ensures we have a very large number of drivers.

For the serious racer doing National races (about 5% of all our competition drivers) and the sponsored drivers, your points are well made. We hope our system encourages everyone to race more, and it seems to work.
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Old 03-07-2006, 06:34 AM   #94
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I have seen that they are shipping the 4300 right now worldwide ! It is on the Team Orion web page
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Old 03-07-2006, 08:16 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by SlowerOne
John, good points. Let me also add to my post by saying that in the UK, the largest majority of our racers compete in non-National 'open' meetings in the Stock and 19T-Spec classes. For these drivers it is not necessary to change packs so often as the duration is not the issue, and having the best cells is not the key to winning when we use control tyres and control motors (Stock and Spec).
I don't think that is correct. In modified the reason for getting new packs halfway through the season (last year more like every three months) is that the voltage increases with almost every batch. Voltage equates directly to more power and speed. In stock and 19T this is even more of an issue!

Unfortunately there is no easy way to address this. Costs will increase, not because of the rules but despite them as long as the current "battery war" continues. Explicitly limiting the size of cells to the sub-c industry standard will hopefully help a bit to slow things down but only if truly seriously enforced. Looking at the current EFRA lift with three types of cells allowed to be larger than standard sub-c size as well as the indications I got that IFMAR will even allow some cells to be up to 44mm long instead of 43.0mm as is in the sub-c standard makes me concerned that this may not be the case.

On the other hand the upcoming LiPo revolution may make all these discussions obsolete within a couple of years...
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Old 03-07-2006, 12:18 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Brian Anthony
That makes alot of sense. I don't know how the racing seasons are in Europe but here in the States there is a distinct difference between the indoor (carpet) season and the outdoor season. More so in the cold weather states though.
I dont know how the different Countrys deal with seasonal weather, but in France you have very few Indoor Carpet Tracks, and very few Indoor Tracks, but most of the tracks here are Quite Large and Permanent Outdoor, controlled by governing Body(FVRC), so during our Racing season(Regional/French Championship), since many people compete and sometime travel Large distances to attend these races, and if the weather is Poor(French Championship,) there is a elected comittee(Mostly Competitors, and Classment President,) discuss if the races should continue or be scheduled for a later date, and most of the time(most) the show goes on! Plus the governing body doesnt allow Tracks to have a Shop available at the track(normally a shop comes to the track, with a car load) we race here year round, except for the summer months, due to it being too Hot. also ive personally been to Races where the Off-road track is frozen over, and we are running On-road, running Offroad and its snowing, and ran Onroad during the rain, so its good sometime and bad for others but i must say the Show always goes on!

Sorry for the off Topic, but wanted to address this particular Quote..

sometimes it aint fun, especailly when im from Southern California!
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