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Old 10-02-2016, 09:06 PM   #1
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Default What adjustments do change first!

Ok guy's,

Just curious on people's thoughts on chassis changes that make the most difference to how a car handles!

I often find myself with a car that when the conditions are right I am not far off the fast guy's and can have .10 -.20 consistency (on really good days) but when track conditions change I struggle to find the right changes to counter those conditions.

I have a list of things I change in order of my percieved top priority first.

1 - Tyres (often controlled but otherwise copy the fast guy's!)
2 - Droop/ride height
3 - Springs

Whenever I change things like shock location, toe, cambers etc I really don't notice any difference, maybe it's just me?

Also when you guy's make these smaller adjustments are you adjusting for better laptimes or better consistency which will lead to better laptimes?
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:12 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by svturtle View Post
Ok guy's,

Just curious on people's thoughts on chassis changes that make the most difference to how a car handles!

I often find myself with a car that when the conditions are right I am not far off the fast guy's and can have .10 -.20 consistency (on really good days) but when track conditions change I struggle to find the right changes to counter those conditions.

I have a list of things I change in order of my percieved top priority first.

1 - Tyres (often controlled but otherwise copy the fast guy's!)
2 - Droop/ride height
3 - Springs

Whenever I change things like shock location, toe, cambers etc I really don't notice any difference, maybe it's just me?it you,

Also when you guy's make these smaller adjustments are you adjusting for better laptimes or better consistency which will lead to better laptimes?
Better laptime
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:01 AM   #3
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Whenever I change things like shock location, toe, cambers etc I really don't notice any difference, maybe it's just me?it you,

Thankyou
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:33 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svturtle View Post
Ok guy's,

Just curious on people's thoughts on chassis changes that make the most difference to how a car handles!

I often find myself with a car that when the conditions are right I am not far off the fast guy's and can have .10 -.20 consistency (on really good days) but when track conditions change I struggle to find the right changes to counter those conditions.

I have a list of things I change in order of my percieved top priority first.

1 - Tyres (often controlled but otherwise copy the fast guy's!)
2 - Droop/ride height
3 - Springs

Whenever I change things like shock location, toe, cambers etc I really don't notice any difference, maybe it's just me?

Also when you guy's make these smaller adjustments are you adjusting for better laptimes or better consistency which will lead to better laptimes?
A lot of different cars react differently to changes depending on how wide their setup window is. I have driven a car that you can make big changes and had trouble noticing a difference, and others that a small change can definately be felt on track. If you are hitting all corners consistantly lap after lap, then you should feel those small changes. At that point, I go for faster lap times in my setup tuning. Every car will have a sweet spot for those changing track conditions. First identify where the car is losing time (entry, mid, exit), and is it in every corner or just a certain section(tuning for a certain section could lower overall lap time, most time is lost in fast technical sections). Then, make changes based on what and where the car is doing. For me, upper camber link roll center, shock positions, and small camber adjustments are what I usually try. I tune with springs based on how the car is reacting on steering and overall grip mid corner. Not sure about your car, but dont be afraid to play with lower shock positions, they are a huge change compared to upper positions. Same goes for roll center. Roll center change at the inner bottom arm hinge pin is a mych bigger change that camber link changes. And I have found that on the camber link, the inner roll center change is a bigger change than the outside roll center shim. This is just my findings on my ARC R11, like I said, other cars may be more or less sensative. Anither thing we play with is adding or removing chassis stiffeners via top deck posts, top deck to servo mount stiffener, and steering post stiffeners.
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:59 AM   #5
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That depends hugely on where you are starting setup wise and that's why I've made a small tool to help me on that regard.
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:10 AM   #6
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:51 AM   #7
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Cheers for the replies guy's.
Airwave, that chart is perfect

1AGOFST, i'll take on board your comments about actually identifying where i'm losing the time not just worrying about the overall laptime only.
That combined with Airwaves chart should help out massively.
Oh, and a bit more track time also!
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:00 PM   #8
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Order of importance chart...1 being low-7 being high?
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:07 PM   #9
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#1 would be the first thing to adjust, it would have the most effect. #2 a little less effect etc.

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Order of importance chart...1 being low-7 being high?
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:23 PM   #10
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#1 would be the first thing to adjust, it would have the most effect. #2 a little less effect etc.
Got it! Thanks!
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:45 PM   #11
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A lot of having a car you can feel changes in comes down to your preparation and consistency in that preparation. Go on youtube and google jilles groskamp redrc and watch his videos.
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Old 10-03-2016, 11:56 PM   #12
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I don't race. But my first adjustment is rear spring preload to control over/understeer.
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Old 10-04-2016, 12:34 AM   #13
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spring preload is not a setting. springs should always be free on the shock. Please don't tell me you are using droop screws in the arms to set your ground clearance...
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Old 10-04-2016, 01:04 AM   #14
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That chart is from the Hudy setup book ;-) But to be honest, it's already quite dated. It still has tremendous value (as does the whole book), but does not reflect how the latest touring cars are setup, e.g. ignoring flex settings and having stuff like gurney strip.

For me the order would be:
1. tires
2. springs
3. oil in shocks and diff
4. droop/rear toe in/flex
5. all the other settings

When the grip changes during the race my best bet would be either stiffer springs or stiffening the car with flex settings.
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Old 10-04-2016, 02:18 AM   #15
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The answer (as always) is "it depends". It depends on:
- What the car is doing
- What I want the car to do
- Where I already am on setup
- Where I'd normally be on setup for the track layout and grip
- How motivated I'm feeling to make time-consuming changes

For example, if the car over-rotates mid-corner then thicker diff oil would help. But if its already a bit loose on corner-exit then that would be a bad idea. So maybe I'd reduce bumpsteer or increase front track width. Unless I'm already low on bumpsteer, and can't be bothered to have the front end apart, in which case I might change springs or chassis flex.

You just need to test, test and test some more. Over the years you'll get a database in your head and a feel for what to change and when. No silver bullets or shortcuts I'm afraid!
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