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Old 10-04-2016, 02:38 AM   #16
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I hear ya daleburr.

Actually pinpointing where I am losing time then adjusting the car accordingly is the next step in my racing learning curve.
Learning what adjustment does what will be invaluable too.
I often get too caught up with trying to catch the guy in front so i'm not noticing where he has the edge over me!
Start to make little mistakes as a result.
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Old 10-04-2016, 02:43 AM   #17
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I don't race. But my first adjustment is rear spring preload to control over/understeer.
4roller, pretty sure spring preload is for adjusting ride height and the droop screws for adjusting droop/down travel.

Someone tell me that's at least right?
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Old 10-04-2016, 04:24 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svturtle View Post
I hear ya daleburr.

Actually pinpointing where I am losing time then adjusting the car accordingly is the next step in my racing learning curve.
Learning what adjustment does what will be invaluable too.
I often get too caught up with trying to catch the guy in front so i'm not noticing where he has the edge over me!
Start to make little mistakes as a result.
Perhaps a headcam or setting up a fixed camera so you can record your races against the faster drivers, then watch back to see exactly where they are faster
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwave View Post
spring preload is not a setting. springs should always be free on the shock. Please don't tell me you are using droop screws in the arms to set your ground clearance...
How do you control tweak, then?
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:21 AM   #20
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The old school "on the fly" method of adjusting tweak was to compensate with droop screws and leveraging swaybars off of centre.

The reality today, is that if you have tweak, you take it out - rather than tune around it.
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:45 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwave View Post
spring preload is not a setting. springs should always be free on the shock. Please don't tell me you are using droop screws in the arms to set your ground clearance...
I drive a rally car on the street 😆 the ride height difference between 5mm or 8mm doesn't matter to me so much.

It looks like the OP is asking for ways to increase his lap times with different settings, and understand some of the nuances of each setting. I assume now that his car is already set up pretty decent already.

However by the looks of some replies, I think people are here to learn too.

Airwave,
Droop I use to manage only maximum downward arm extension.

Spring preload, I use to balance left and right oversteer. But in any case, if the car is oversteering evenly on both sides, then softer rear springs may help. Also grippier rear tires.

For ride height, I adjust spring preload (in shocks pairs at the same rate) once the car is behaving evenly left and right.

Unless your car is perfectly balanced in all four corners, then spring preload is definitely a setting to balance your cars weight distribution.

Question to airwave, what does that mean to have the springs free on the shock? Is this with the car full weighted and settled? I don't understand, please clarify.

I am looking to learn like everyone else. Hopefully we can all share (truthful and factual) information and observations.

Please continue with some settings.

I will mention that I am driving a 4wd front mount motor (Tamiya xv-01).

What is the OP driving?
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:10 AM   #22
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a man who knows his stuff on detweaking your car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_ScOTQHqrw
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:24 AM   #23
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That's the method most people use, hence the spring can not be "free on the shock".

But there are also situations where you have to apply more preload if you want a higher ride height on a bumpy track for instance.

The whole tweak problem could be completely avoided if top decks had locating dowels instead of relying on the screws for location.
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Old 10-04-2016, 02:20 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 4roller View Post
What is the OP driving?
I was driving a TC6.2 but have made the switch to VBC D08.
I was running the TC6.2 in 13.5 blinky and that's the chassis I had trouble feeling these minor changes with.
I bought my daughter a VBC Ghost Evo to punt around in the Novice class, 21.5 blinky.
The Ghost Evo chassis always seemed to be quite good regardless of conditions.
Maybe just the fact that 21.5 is quite a bit slower than 13.5 it isn't testing the limits of chassis design?
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Old 10-04-2016, 02:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar View Post
a man who knows his stuff on detweaking your car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_ScOTQHqrw
Good video, the tip on adjusting the spring preload a little to achieve the same tension left to right is helpful.
I pretty much was setting equal turns on shock collars front or rear to achieve desired ride height.
I thought by having different spring tensions left to right would cause the tweak!
(Having said that he only had to make very minor adjustments) once all else was adjusted first.
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:28 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svturtle View Post
Good video, the tip on adjusting the spring preload a little to achieve the same tension left to right is helpful.
I pretty much was setting equal turns on shock collars front or rear to achieve desired ride height.
I thought by having different spring tensions left to right would cause the tweak!
(Having said that he only had to make very minor adjustments) once all else was adjusted first.
Good video, this just confirmed my own discoveries.

Now how about camber link heights and link length? These affect roll center. How do those relate to the OPs question on how to increase lap times? I am interested to learn since I never really touch mine. But I have read that even moving them up and down by a few millimeters can affect how ones car turns. Is this really the case with low travel on road cars? I can see it making a big difference in off road cars with a lot of travel.

Enlighten us 🤔
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Old 10-05-2016, 06:58 AM   #27
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The camber links have two effects.

One is to change your roll center, the other to change your camber gain.

Neither is a given quantity and both depend on other settings like for instance ride height (not necessarily the ride height itself, but the angle of the camber link at rest, i.e. at ride height).

This is why you have to adjust your camber links for your car/driving style/track, not pick and choose from someone else's setup or blindly follow suggestions.

Start by choosing your ride height and set your car so it drives neutrally (neither push nor loose) around corners. When you get that, you have a baseline. Now start tweaking things and see if you gain any speed (falling lap times) or not. One thing at a time.

Our track is bumpy so suspension settings are soft out of necessity.
It is also low grip, so the only chance to get some grip is to allow the car to roll a bit hence that is what I adjust for and allow as much camber gain as I can use to make the most of it.
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Old 10-05-2016, 03:12 PM   #28
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Free on the shock it can slightly move up and down, juste as Martin explains in the video... if you need preload, it means that you are not using proper springs. By the way, I'm used to touring car on carpet and asphalt, and absolutely not a specialist in rally :-)

In modern touring cars, the effect on the camber gain is quite negligible compared to the changes to the roll center...



Also an interesting video there:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6XNDw7Ql84
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Old 10-05-2016, 06:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwave View Post
Free on the shock it can slightly move up and down, juste as Martin explains in the video... if you need preload, it means that you are not using proper springs. By the way, I'm used to touring car on carpet and asphalt, and absolutely not a specialist in rally :-)

In modern touring cars, the effect on the camber gain is quite negligible compared to the changes to the roll center...



Also an interesting video there:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6XNDw7Ql84
I keep seeing diagrams like this, that assume the lines from the upper and lower links converge. I've had a look at one of my cars and they diverge. How does one find the roll centre in that situation?
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Old 10-05-2016, 11:06 PM   #30
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Thanks for that. Your track sounds like my street where I drive, a little bumpy and low grip. Since I don't have anyone to race against, I guess it all comes down to how nice the car feels and handles. After watching the Mr.Hudy video, I went and set up my car to take out all the imbalances. I cannot believe how many things I had that weren't balanced! Now my car is ultra neutral and feels so much better than before.

I will look into roll center and camber gain and see how my car reacts to one change at a time.




Quote:
Originally Posted by niznai View Post
The camber links have two effects.

One is to change your roll center, the other to change your camber gain.

Neither is a given quantity and both depend on other settings like for instance ride height (not necessarily the ride height itself, but the angle of the camber link at rest, i.e. at ride height).

This is why you have to adjust your camber links for your car/driving style/track, not pick and choose from someone else's setup or blindly follow suggestions.

Start by choosing your ride height and set your car so it drives neutrally (neither push nor loose) around corners. When you get that, you have a baseline. Now start tweaking things and see if you gain any speed (falling lap times) or not. One thing at a time.

Our track is bumpy so suspension settings are soft out of necessity.
It is also low grip, so the only chance to get some grip is to allow the car to roll a bit hence that is what I adjust for and allow as much camber gain as I can use to make the most of it.
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