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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Xray T4'17
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Welcome to the XRAY T4'17 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!

New for 2017:
The T4'17 comes available with either a Graphite chassis, or Aluminum Flex chassis. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The 2017 also comes standard with the floating swing rack as an option, and the Composite Graphite arms included. Most of the team prefers the Graphite arms for both asphalt and carpet, though sometimes Hard arms may be ideal for asphalt depending on the conditions. This year's car also comes with the new "In-line Flex Adjustment" which provides many more flex adjustments than in the past allowing you to focus & fine-tune on forward/back flex and side-to-side flex both together & independently. Additionally, the Ackermann has been moved back by 1mm and the spacing of the RF blocks is wider, creating 0.5° less rear toe from previous T4 models.

What's NEW at T4 2017? Convert your '16 to '17 specs with these parts:

- NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from below)
- NEW Motor holder
- NEW Motor holder plate
- NEW center shaft holder
- NEW Floating Servo Mount

301142 T4'17 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE
301143 T4'17 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6
301144 T4'17 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6

302536 ALU STEERING POST FOR FLOATING SERVO SAVER (2)
303066-O T4'17 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD CLOSED L/R - ORANGE
303067-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE
303068-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE
306204-O T4'17 ALU SERVO MOUNT - ORANGE
306233 T4'17 GRAPHITE FLOATING SERVO HOLDER 3.0MM
306530 T4'17 GRAPHITE CHASSIS STIFFENER 3.0MM

Tips & Tricks:

Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles

How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body
Setting static camber
How to mount weight on your chassis Part1
How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies
Simple troubleshooting guide
How to mount the battery on your chassis
How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode
How to mount weight on your chassis Part2
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold

Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model.

1- Carbon Parts
2-Suspension
3-Solid Axle and Differential
4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain
5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD)
6-Front & Rear Suspension
7-Tweak
8-Anti-Roll Bar
9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL)
10-Bumper & Body
11-Shocks
12-Steering

Center Brace:
The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here.

Tuning Note:
On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners.

New Graphite Hubs:
Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options.

ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard):
If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1° at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously )

Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5°), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression.

Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there.

Optional & Tuning Parts to consider:
XRA301196 T4 Graphite Upper Deck 1.6mm V2
XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite
XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster
0° - Orange *Only for ARS*
XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4
° - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4
° - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF
XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar
XRA303360 Composite Upright 0° Outboard Toe-In - Graphite
XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar
XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel *Highly recommend*
XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4)
XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2)
XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset
“+0.75mm” - Black (QTY 2)
XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder
XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2)
XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2)
XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2)

XRA308039 Aluminum Progressive Shock System – Set (QTY 2) *Only for asphalt*

Recent Setups:
Bruno Coelho - IIC 2016 - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Alex Hagberg - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified
Jan Ratheisky - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - 13.5
Chris Adams - Halloween Classic - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Chris Adams - ROAR Region 9 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified
Craig Xavier - US Indoor Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd1 Hrotovice - Med Bite Carpet - Modified
Craig Xavier - Stock Wars - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Jan Ratheisky - DHI Cup - Med Bite Carpet - 13.5
Chris Adams - Texas EOS Rd 1 - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Alex Hagberg - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Robbie Dodge - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Jan Ratheisky - TITC - High Bite Asphalt - 13.5
Drew Ellis - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Eric Anderson - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - Modified
Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - 17.5
Dan Hamann - MN State Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5

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Old 08-09-2017, 08:17 AM   #1426
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Typically the box setup is pretty stable. What tires are you using? Sorex 24. I tried 28 and it was worse but I didnt go back to them after the last adjustments. That will make a big difference in what the car will do and what changes you should make. Additionally, how is traction at your track? Is the track high bite, or is it low? I would say low to very low. Its pretty low traction during the first round and gets best around the 3rd round.

Generally on high bite gray carpet I would look at making the rear of the car stiffer. Less flex, maybe a 2.6 rear spring or a 1.4 rear bar or higher rear roll center would help. I wondered the same thing and unfortunately did not have time to try. If the car is too free on entry you can try thicker rear diff fluid. I have found 7 or 8k to be best on carpet for stock but that could make the car a little more aggressive on power. I did go up to 7 k in the rear and it did help. I would say the biggest problem area is on corner exit. The car just would not have much if any rear traction and would spin around easily. I'm kinda heavy on the trigger out of the corner and it was hard to smoothly accelerate out of the corner. All in all the car was super fast it just was very loose around the corners. I use a Mazda 6 lw body.

Hope that helps.
thanks for the input. I just dont get much track time but its nice to know what to try when I get there. BTW I did have what I call a Pro level driver helping me with the setup and even he was having trouble. We kept trying different setting on the roll center and camber and springs up front. I did make quite a few changes to the suspension holders as well.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:27 AM   #1427
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thanks for the input. I just dont get much track time but its nice to know what to try when I get there. BTW I did have what I call a Pro level driver helping me with the setup and even he was having trouble. We kept trying different setting on the roll center and camber and springs up front. I did make quite a few changes to the suspension holders as well.
Based on what you shared there, I would think you probably want to try less flex at the rear by adding more screws to the motor mount. Also, lighter diff fluid, the 7K will make it more aggressive on exit while 3K from kit should be smoother on power but could be more aggressive on entry. You may also try an LTC as that body is typically more locked in at the rear compared to the MazdaSpeed6. A 1.4 rear bar or 2.6 rear spring should help too. Assuming the rear shock is in hole 3 on the tower.
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:52 AM   #1428
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I hear that. I was up to 2.8 that I borrowed and still was unhappy. I made numerous changes to roll center, camber, toe, droop, and ackerman trying to get it to have some rear grip. I want to try a softer rear sway bar and springs but I worry about too much differential in stiffness from the rear to the front. There is always the possibility that it is too soft in the rear. I have seen some setups with stiffer rear springs than front.

I have since changed the setup to a setup I found on Petit but have not had a chance to try it out yet.

I wonder if adding in the center graphite stiffener would help, or maybe adding or changing around the screws in the motor mount or top plate would be something to try.
I just remembered that I have all the motor mount screws in place and the centre graphite stiffener. Not using the middle upper deck screws - ever. The 2.9 front springs are definitely staying on the car.
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:25 PM   #1429
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I don't believe shaft length has a real effect on standard shocks. I think that's only effective on PSS.
Many thanks for the reply and info, much appreciated.
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:24 AM   #1430
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thanks for the input. I just dont get much track time but its nice to know what to try when I get there. BTW I did have what I call a Pro level driver helping me with the setup and even he was having trouble. We kept trying different setting on the roll center and camber and springs up front. I did make quite a few changes to the suspension holders as well.
Are you using the indoor Sorex 28's either with the JB insert or the newer black instert?
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:14 AM   #1431
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i discovered that even you think you have no grip in the rear when it`s to loose on the exit, you should stiffen the rear.
most of the time i drive 2.5/2.8 front and 2.9 rear, shocks position: F:2/R:3.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:24 AM   #1432
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Are you using the indoor Sorex 28's either with the JB insert or the newer black instert?
I'm not sure on the 28's as they were kinda old. But they were either Black or JB i would guess. On the 24's they are likey the RY or yellow with Revlite. I have a brand new pack of 28's that I plan to try next time out. They are probably the RY also I will have to check.

I'm going to start marking the tires better. I always mark the shore but only mark the ones with the black inserts as I thought all the others I had were JB.

Just out of curiosity what insert would be best for low traction carpet with some bumps? After watching the Shumacher video I would think the black would be best for me as I tend to run the tires till worn out or the next big race.

Thanks for all the help everybody.
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:08 AM   #1433
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I'm not sure on the 28's as they were kinda old. But they were either Black or JB i would guess. On the 24's they are likey the RY or yellow with Revlite. I have a brand new pack of 28's that I plan to try next time out. They are probably the RY also I will have to check.

I'm going to start marking the tires better. I always mark the shore but only mark the ones with the black inserts as I thought all the others I had were JB.

Just out of curiosity what insert would be best for low traction carpet with some bumps? After watching the Shumacher video I would think the black would be best for me as I tend to run the tires till worn out or the next big race.

Thanks for all the help everybody.
I think the JB insert gives most traction, you should be able to see the colour of the insert from looking through the hole in the wheel on the inside
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:51 AM   #1434
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I checked the new 28's I have and the are the black insert "RK". As near as I could find the JB insert was machined but I couldn't find a comparison to the black insert. The place I buy my tires has XG-28JB and XG-28RK.

The description for the XG-28RK says this:
This is a set of four of Team Sorex Carpet Racing 28R Pre-Mounted On-Road racing tires. These tires are pre-mounted on Schumacher RevLight wheels using Black inserts.
The fastest indoor carpet 1/10th Touring tire just got faster and longer lasting! The construction with the Schumacher developed Black foam insert, Sorex 28R tire and Revlite wheel has great traction and acceleration for the ultimate carpet tire.
The insert has been developed to give more even wear rate and improved consistency, meaning more runs at a high performance level compared with the popular 28JB tyre.

I think thats why I went with the RK version over the JB. I dont recall ever running them back to back for comparison since I usually just run a set till they are worn out or the next big race.

I will give the 28's a try next outing. Its highly possible the 24's were just overheated and greasy since the car had so much power and the track and air were freakin hot. Like 90 degrees hot indoors.
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:34 AM   #1435
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I checked the new 28's I have and the are the black insert "RK". As near as I could find the JB insert was machined but I couldn't find a comparison to the black insert. The place I buy my tires has XG-28JB and XG-28RK.

The description for the XG-28RK says this:
This is a set of four of Team Sorex Carpet Racing 28R Pre-Mounted On-Road racing tires. These tires are pre-mounted on Schumacher RevLight wheels using Black inserts.
The fastest indoor carpet 1/10th Touring tire just got faster and longer lasting! The construction with the Schumacher developed Black foam insert, Sorex 28R tire and Revlite wheel has great traction and acceleration for the ultimate carpet tire.
The insert has been developed to give more even wear rate and improved consistency, meaning more runs at a high performance level compared with the popular 28JB tyre.

I think thats why I went with the RK version over the JB. I dont recall ever running them back to back for comparison since I usually just run a set till they are worn out or the next big race.

I will give the 28's a try next outing. Its highly possible the 24's were just overheated and greasy since the car had so much power and the track and air were freakin hot. Like 90 degrees hot indoors.
Yes black will be better wearing than the JB. I think the JB is a dual compound insert as it's both blue and yellow. The Sorex tyres do seem to be softer than they used to be so you could even go to 32's
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:59 PM   #1436
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Our new hold downs have longer tabs and bigger diameter posts. The reiability is much better I'd like to say.

When used with the xray carbon fiber adjustable sliding mounts, the battery can be adjusted. However, most run the battery in the standard position for which we have optional Keyed CF battery holders.
Sorry, I know that post was several weeks ago, Cristian, but to make your #RSD166 work with Xrays #306191 as you mentioned, I guess one has to drill a hole into the carbon fiber L-brace to screw it on? Cannot imagine it would fit onto the aluminium piece in any way (since they're too much rounded, not flat).
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Old 08-18-2017, 05:58 AM   #1437
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Hi, I'm Marco.
I have a xray T4 17', my second electric touring car after a T3 2012.
I'm very happy, great car and materials but, as every xray I drived in the past (nitro sister, Nt1) this model is too easy to drive with a tendence of understeer (especially on power and in fast corners) that I don't like so much. I thinks this is an intentional project feature, anyway, in the past I never found a way to obtain a good setup for my driving style. So, the question is simple, how can I get more steering without change the rear stability?
I run a stock asphalt setup (from xray website) with two differences: 2.7 front springs and 2.6 rear (instead of 2.5 everywhere). My body is LTCR and I use 36 tyres (here is very hot weather)
For the next time I made two changes:
-2mm front track width
-1mm wheelbase
These should help in steering and reactivity. Can I try something else?
Understeer is only in fast corners, mid and exit.
Thanks
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Old 08-18-2017, 06:25 AM   #1438
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Hi, I'm Marco.
I have a xray T4 17', my second electric touring car after a T3 2012.
I'm very happy, great car and materials but, as every xray I drived in the past (nitro sister, Nt1) this model is too easy to drive with a tendence of understeer (especially on power and in fast corners) that I don't like so much. I thinks this is an intentional project feature, anyway, in the past I never found a way to obtain a good setup for my driving style. So, the question is simple, how can I get more steering without change the rear stability?
I run a stock asphalt setup (from xray website) with two differences: 2.7 front springs and 2.6 rear (instead of 2.5 everywhere). My body is LTCR and I use 36 tyres (here is very hot weather)
For the next time I made two changes:
-2mm front track width
-1mm wheelbase
These should help in steering and reactivity. Can I try something else?
Understeer is only in fast corners, mid and exit.
Thanks
Making the front width narrower should improve steering. I've not tried it at the pins yet (on my list of things to test) but I have heard from others that it works. I've done it at the hex by running the -0.75 hex and I like those for increased steering.

Making the wheelbase shorter will definitely increase steering. I have actually moved both my front and rear arms all the way forward which I feel has increased steering quite a bit. So my wheelbase is not shorter, I have just moved the chassis back.

You could also try a little less rear toe, maybe 0.5 out on the front arm insert, and a little thicker diff oil, about 5K should be good.
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Old 08-18-2017, 07:24 AM   #1439
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Making the front width narrower should improve steering. I've not tried it at the pins yet (on my list of things to test) but I have heard from others that it works. I've done it at the hex by running the -0.75 hex and I like those for increased steering.

Making the wheelbase shorter will definitely increase steering. I have actually moved both my front and rear arms all the way forward which I feel has increased steering quite a bit. So my wheelbase is not shorter, I have just moved the chassis back.

You could also try a little less rear toe, maybe 0.5 out on the front arm insert, and a little thicker diff oil, about 5K should be good.
I second narrowing the front. I run on asphalt, hot weather, and my front inserts are all the way in and down (FR and FF). I use 2.5 rear toe. I also use progressive smj yellow front springs and 2.6 xray rear. 35 weight oil, and 4000 rear diff. I also use the carbon center brace. Front and rear camber is about 1.75 - 2.0.
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Old 08-19-2017, 06:12 AM   #1440
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I run on high bite crc black carpet, which way do I shift the wheelbase to make it easier to drive? I know Hagberg does something.

Thanks!
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