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Old 07-20-2017, 02:09 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Xray T4'17
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Welcome to the XRAY T4'17 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!

New for 2017:
The T4'17 comes available with either a Graphite chassis, or Aluminum Flex chassis. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The 2017 also comes standard with the floating swing rack as an option, and the Composite Graphite arms included. Most of the team prefers the Graphite arms for both asphalt and carpet, though sometimes Hard arms may be ideal for asphalt depending on the conditions. This year's car also comes with the new "In-line Flex Adjustment" which provides many more flex adjustments than in the past allowing you to focus & fine-tune on forward/back flex and side-to-side flex both together & independently. Additionally, the Ackermann has been moved back by 1mm and the spacing of the RF blocks is wider, creating 0.5° less rear toe from previous T4 models.

What's NEW at T4 2017? Convert your '16 to '17 specs with these parts:

- NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from below)
- NEW Motor holder
- NEW Motor holder plate
- NEW center shaft holder
- NEW Floating Servo Mount

301142 T4'17 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE
301143 T4'17 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6
301144 T4'17 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6

302536 ALU STEERING POST FOR FLOATING SERVO SAVER (2)
303066-O T4'17 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD CLOSED L/R - ORANGE
303067-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE
303068-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE
306204-O T4'17 ALU SERVO MOUNT - ORANGE
306233 T4'17 GRAPHITE FLOATING SERVO HOLDER 3.0MM
306530 T4'17 GRAPHITE CHASSIS STIFFENER 3.0MM

Tips & Tricks:

Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles

How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body
Setting static camber
How to mount weight on your chassis Part1
How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies
Simple troubleshooting guide
How to mount the battery on your chassis
How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode
How to mount weight on your chassis Part2
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold

Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model.

1- Carbon Parts
2-Suspension
3-Solid Axle and Differential
4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain
5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD)
6-Front & Rear Suspension
7-Tweak
8-Anti-Roll Bar
9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL)
10-Bumper & Body
11-Shocks
12-Steering

Center Brace:
The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here.

Tuning Note:
On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners.

New Graphite Hubs:
Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options.

ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard):
If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1° at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously )

Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5°), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression.

Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there.

Optional & Tuning Parts to consider:
XRA301196 T4 Graphite Upper Deck 1.6mm V2
XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite
XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster
0° - Orange *Only for ARS*
XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4
° - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4
° - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF
XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar
XRA303360 Composite Upright 0° Outboard Toe-In - Graphite
XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar
XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel *Highly recommend*
XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4)
XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2)
XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset
“+0.75mm” - Black (QTY 2)
XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder
XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2)
XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2)
XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2)

XRA308039 Aluminum Progressive Shock System – Set (QTY 2) *Only for asphalt*

Recent Setups:
Bruno Coelho - IIC 2016 - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Alex Hagberg - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified
Jan Ratheisky - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - 13.5
Chris Adams - Halloween Classic - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Chris Adams - ROAR Region 9 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified
Craig Xavier - US Indoor Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd1 Hrotovice - Med Bite Carpet - Modified
Craig Xavier - Stock Wars - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Jan Ratheisky - DHI Cup - Med Bite Carpet - 13.5
Chris Adams - Texas EOS Rd 1 - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Alex Hagberg - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Robbie Dodge - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Jan Ratheisky - TITC - High Bite Asphalt - 13.5
Drew Ellis - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Eric Anderson - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - Modified
Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - 17.5
Dan Hamann - MN State Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5

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Old 03-19-2017, 01:41 PM   #976
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Yes the are.

EA
Thanks.
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Old 03-19-2017, 02:30 PM   #977
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Do you still have to run offset spur gears?? Just picked up a 2017 and looking to buy some different sizes. What brand does everyone recommend??
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Old 03-19-2017, 03:29 PM   #978
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Do you still have to run offset spur gears?? Just picked up a 2017 and looking to buy some different sizes. What brand does everyone recommend??
Lee Speed I get them from TEAMEAM
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Old 03-19-2017, 05:30 PM   #979
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Anybody want to weigh in on the durability of hard arms vs graphite?
On other brands of cars I found the graphite stuff was much more fragile.
Is this the same on XRay, or is it more of a tuning decision instead of durability?
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Old 03-19-2017, 06:05 PM   #980
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I've never had a problem with the graphite arms . X-rays are tanks !!! They don't break !!! And yes it's a tuning option too . To me the car feels more lively with the graphite versus the hard . Hope this info helps
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:19 PM   #981
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I've never had a problem with the graphite arms . X-rays are tanks !!! They don't break !!! And yes it's a tuning option too . To me the car feels more lively with the graphite versus the hard . Hope this info helps
Thanks!
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:14 AM   #982
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Originally Posted by funked1 View Post
Anybody want to weigh in on the durability of hard arms vs graphite?
On other brands of cars I found the graphite stuff was much more fragile.
Is this the same on XRay, or is it more of a tuning decision instead of durability?
I think I've broken 3 arms in 8 years of running Xray.
That's running at least once a week with the first 4-5 years on 'Hard' and 'Graphite' ever since.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:22 AM   #983
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Missed u at nats many people tried to do a robbie dodge pit but no one can do it like u can lol
LOL thanks, wish I could've been there. Donny's place is amazing; with his crew, the local crowd and the competition it is always a great time.

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Originally Posted by B.S. View Post
Can anybody tell me, what will give bump steer changing?
Adding shims between the ballstud and the steering block increases bumpsteer, which increases the angle of the outside wheel during compression. You can find detailed info on bumpsteer and a lot more on learnsetup.com. That site a great tool from Martin Crisp, 2017 Stock TC Canadian National Champion.

Speaking of which, Congrats to Martin, Luke, Blake and the rest of the team on a great showing at the 2017 Canadian Nats!
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:13 AM   #984
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What other brands of ball studs work on the T4 looking for 10mm long ball studs for the rear upper c hub?
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:56 AM   #985
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What other brands of ball studs work on the T4 looking for 10mm long ball studs for the rear upper c hub?
Outside of the stock spring steel ball studs, the Avid 4.9x10mm Ball studs are excellent.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:04 AM   #986
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Good Morning,

So I got a new "problem" I never had before with my other cars, the damn thing is too light... around 1330g .
I thought about changing the body to a heavier one but then also saw that Xray offers 20 and 30g weights you can put right where the graphite re-inforcement plate is located.
So the question is what is "better". I personally think a heavier body distributes the additional weight more evenly across the chassis, but the weight is obviously a lot less work.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:53 AM   #987
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Good Morning,

So I got a new "problem" I never had before with my other cars, the damn thing is too light... around 1330g .
I thought about changing the body to a heavier one but then also saw that Xray offers 20 and 30g weights you can put right where the graphite re-inforcement plate is located.
So the question is what is "better". I personally think a heavier body distributes the additional weight more evenly across the chassis, but the weight is obviously a lot less work.
I'd go with weight on the chassis, keeping the center of gravity as low as possible is going to be the better option. However, if you do indeed have the '17 car, the old 20g and 30g chassis weights won't directly bolt on at both anchoring points. I'd add weight depending on how you want the car to handle, weight in the front will smooth out steering inputs and limit weight transfer on braking. Weight in the middle will be the most neutral, and putting it at the back of the chassis will increase steering/rotation, particularly on braking.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:09 AM   #988
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Originally Posted by Dan Hamann View Post
I'd go with weight on the chassis, keeping the center of gravity as low as possible is going to be the better option. However, if you do indeed have the '17 car, the old 20g and 30g chassis weights won't directly bolt on at both anchoring points. I'd add weight depending on how you want the car to handle, weight in the front will smooth out steering inputs and limit weight transfer on braking. Weight in the middle will be the most neutral, and putting it at the back of the chassis will increase steering/rotation, particularly on braking.
Yes it is the '17 car, so since the old chassis weights do not work what alternative do I have? Those 5g per piece balancing weights (self-adhesive)?
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:02 AM   #989
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Yes it is the '17 car, so since the old chassis weights do not work what alternative do I have? Those 5g per piece balancing weights (self-adhesive)?
Yes, a lot of us use those to fine-tune the balance/feel of the car. It is hard to see in these pics but you can see where i have added 10g total under the swing rack by placing 5g on each side of the belt. You can also see that I added 10g between the speedo and motor and 5g next to the rx to help balance the car left/right for the heavy packs we use in 17.5

Team Xray T4'17 - Robbie Dodge - Snowbird Nationals - 02-05.02.2017

Additionally, XRAY sells really nice brass arm mounts that a lot of guys use to add weight to the centerline of the car and adjust weight bias front/rear.

https://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/sh...f76c2839c92066

Keep in mind that each scale will read differently, so it is not uncommon to arrive at a new track and have to add a few grams. Also, different brands of wheels/tires will affect weight as well. For instance, jaco is usually about 2-3g lighter per wheel than gravity.
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:49 AM   #990
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Wow thanks for the links. I really like the arm mounts. Of course the cheaper router are the additional weights since they cost close to nothing.
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