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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Xray T4'17
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Welcome to the XRAY T4'17 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!

New for 2017:
The T4'17 comes available with either a Graphite chassis, or Aluminum Flex chassis. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The 2017 also comes standard with the floating swing rack as an option, and the Composite Graphite arms included. Most of the team prefers the Graphite arms for both asphalt and carpet, though sometimes Hard arms may be ideal for asphalt depending on the conditions. This year's car also comes with the new "In-line Flex Adjustment" which provides many more flex adjustments than in the past allowing you to focus & fine-tune on forward/back flex and side-to-side flex both together & independently. Additionally, the Ackermann has been moved back by 1mm and the spacing of the RF blocks is wider, creating 0.5° less rear toe from previous T4 models.

What's NEW at T4 2017? Convert your '16 to '17 specs with these parts:

- NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from below)
- NEW Motor holder
- NEW Motor holder plate
- NEW center shaft holder
- NEW Floating Servo Mount

301142 T4'17 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE
301143 T4'17 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6
301144 T4'17 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6

302536 ALU STEERING POST FOR FLOATING SERVO SAVER (2)
303066-O T4'17 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD CLOSED L/R - ORANGE
303067-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE
303068-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE
306204-O T4'17 ALU SERVO MOUNT - ORANGE
306233 T4'17 GRAPHITE FLOATING SERVO HOLDER 3.0MM
306530 T4'17 GRAPHITE CHASSIS STIFFENER 3.0MM

Tips & Tricks:

Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles

How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body
Setting static camber
How to mount weight on your chassis Part1
How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies
Simple troubleshooting guide
How to mount the battery on your chassis
How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode
How to mount weight on your chassis Part2
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold

Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model.

1- Carbon Parts
2-Suspension
3-Solid Axle and Differential
4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain
5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD)
6-Front & Rear Suspension
7-Tweak
8-Anti-Roll Bar
9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL)
10-Bumper & Body
11-Shocks
12-Steering

Center Brace:
The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here.

Tuning Note:
On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners.

New Graphite Hubs:
Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options.

ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard):
If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1° at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously )

Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5°), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression.

Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there.

Optional & Tuning Parts to consider:
XRA301196 T4 Graphite Upper Deck 1.6mm V2
XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite
XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster
0° - Orange *Only for ARS*
XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4
° - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4
° - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF
XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar
XRA303360 Composite Upright 0° Outboard Toe-In - Graphite
XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar
XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel *Highly recommend*
XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4)
XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2)
XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset
“+0.75mm” - Black (QTY 2)
XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder
XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2)
XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2)
XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2)

XRA308039 Aluminum Progressive Shock System – Set (QTY 2) *Only for asphalt*

Recent Setups:
Bruno Coelho - IIC 2016 - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Alex Hagberg - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified
Jan Ratheisky - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - 13.5
Chris Adams - Halloween Classic - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Chris Adams - ROAR Region 9 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified
Craig Xavier - US Indoor Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd1 Hrotovice - Med Bite Carpet - Modified
Craig Xavier - Stock Wars - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Jan Ratheisky - DHI Cup - Med Bite Carpet - 13.5
Chris Adams - Texas EOS Rd 1 - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Alex Hagberg - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Robbie Dodge - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Jan Ratheisky - TITC - High Bite Asphalt - 13.5
Drew Ellis - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Eric Anderson - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - Modified
Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - 17.5
Dan Hamann - MN State Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5

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Old 09-12-2017, 04:09 AM   #1546
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Originally Posted by dan_vector View Post
Was it that the car was much easier to drive so the consistency was better or was the Xray just quicker over a single lap and if so how much quicker were you? Thanks for the feedback.
4X to Xray T4 2017. I found the 4X hard to drive outdoors, the rear end was all over the place. Never tried the new parts though. The Xray is just plain simpler to drive and work on. I drive modified outdoors. It is very easy to drive, maybe too easy for some. I rely more on consistency than hot laps nowadays.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:42 AM   #1547
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Hello
Please, I need some suggestions, I can't get enough on power steering in my T4.
I'm running a standard setup, with lower front roll center (-1mm), shorter front width (-4mm) and shorter wheelbase. The model has enough rear grip but not so much but front grip is too little in my opinion. I don't understand if front roll center is too low and if I'm moving in the right way, maybe do I need higher roll center? I don't think, but the model seems to not hear any front setup modifications. I change springs, drop, roll center and I don't see appreciable differences in the front of the car on the contrary the rear becomes every time less stable. What can me suggest to get more on power saving good rear stability?
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:54 AM   #1548
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Originally Posted by maRRRco View Post
Hello
Please, I need some suggestions, I can't get enough on power steering in my T4.
I'm running a standard setup, with lower front roll center (-1mm), shorter front width (-4mm) and shorter wheelbase. The model has enough rear grip but not so much but front grip is too little in my opinion. I don't understand if front roll center is too low and if I'm moving in the right way, maybe do I need higher roll center? I don't think, but the model seems to not hear any front setup modifications. I change springs, drop, roll center and I don't see appreciable differences in the front of the car on the contrary the rear becomes every time less stable. What can me suggest to get more on power saving good rear stability?
Can you help us out with more information. You running on Carpet/Asphalt? Stock or Modified? Also your current body your running with? Body of choice can and will determine how the chassis handles a great deal. Thanks
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:56 AM   #1549
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Originally Posted by maRRRco View Post
Hello
Please, I need some suggestions, I can't get enough on power steering in my T4.
I'm running a standard setup, with lower front roll center (-1mm), shorter front width (-4mm) and shorter wheelbase. The model has enough rear grip but not so much but front grip is too little in my opinion. I don't understand if front roll center is too low and if I'm moving in the right way, maybe do I need higher roll center? I don't think, but the model seems to not hear any front setup modifications. I change springs, drop, roll center and I don't see appreciable differences in the front of the car on the contrary the rear becomes every time less stable. What can me suggest to get more on power saving good rear stability?
The T4's tendency is to understeer, this looks to be being rectified with the 2018 release which is out anytime now. There are of course things you can do like different shells etc... but I find the rear becomes very loose when trying to achieve more front end, especially on power like you say
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:00 PM   #1550
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Originally Posted by NEED-MORE-SPEED View Post
Can you help us out with more information. You running on Carpet/Asphalt? Stock or Modified? Also your current body your running with? Body of choice can and will determine how the chassis handles a great deal. Thanks
You are right, I forgot to do it.
I run in modified class, large and fast asphalt track, medium to hight grip, fast corners at almost full throttle. LTC-R body, tried also a bitty M410 but I didn't like it so much. In this conditions I will try to reduce front roll center, but I don't know if is the way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar View Post
The T4's tendency is to understeer, this looks to be being rectified with the 2018 release which is out anytime now. There are of course things you can do like different shells etc... but I find the rear becomes very loose when trying to achieve more front end, especially on power like you say
Yes, this was my first impression, when I load the front the rear becomes loose espacially on power and with old tyres this can let to uncontrollable spin, so you have to drive carefully.
I have to do something. Like I said, my setup is standard, with some modifications already writed.

Thanks in advance
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:00 PM   #1551
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I would leave your front suspension pin adjustments alone (how you have them now should be good). Run Progressive Hard Springs front/back and 450CST Oils. Increase your rear toe to 3.5mm, 1mm more droop in the front than rear. Also your inline flex adjustment is big for asphalt (I would play with your inline flex adjustment)
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:35 PM   #1552
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Originally Posted by maRRRco View Post
You are right, I forgot to do it.
I run in modified class, large and fast asphalt track, medium to hight grip, fast corners at almost full throttle. LTC-R body, tried also a bitty M410 but I didn't like it so much. In this conditions I will try to reduce front roll center, but I don't know if is the way to go.



Yes, this was my first impression, when I load the front the rear becomes loose espacially on power and with old tyres this can let to uncontrollable spin, so you have to drive carefully.
I have to do something. Like I said, my setup is standard, with some modifications already writed.

Thanks in advance
Can you fill out and post a setup sheet?
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:37 PM   #1553
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Originally Posted by maRRRco View Post
You are right, I forgot to do it.
I run in modified class, large and fast asphalt track, medium to hight grip, fast corners at almost full throttle. LTC-R body, tried also a bitty M410 but I didn't like it so much. In this conditions I will try to reduce front roll center, but I don't know if is the way to go.
You also missed adding tire info - that's 99% of your setup.
Would be interested to know what tire combination you're using and the tyre prep involved. I find when I'm using old tires my cars have that tendency to become loose on-power.
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:25 AM   #1554
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I use italian tyres, Sp racing 36, with wd40 as additive. Setup sheet is coming.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkwmy23kw7...table.pdf?dl=0

Last edited by maRRRco; 09-14-2017 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:03 AM   #1555
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Originally Posted by maRRRco View Post
I use italian tyres, Sp racing 36, with wd40 as additive. Setup sheet is coming.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkwmy23kw7...table.pdf?dl=0
Looking at that setup.

Firstly, your droop settings.. 4.6 F and 6.0R is basically back to front. Usual is 5-5.2 on the front, 4-4.2 on the rear (dependent on tire size).

Secondly your rear spring is too soft IMO. I would try a 2.6 or 2.7 to start with. Also consider a progressive 2.5-2.8 front, as that spring combo is the general go to nowadays. On the towers, front to hole 2 (1 up from bottom), rear to hole 3 (1 down from top).

Also i actually think you front pins are too narrow, which isnt going to help. For modified, the base starting point is FF 1.0 down and out, and FR 0.5 down and out. Will make the front more stable on entry, as well as give some sweep to help mid corner.

Also strongly suggest setting the hexs the same as well. And reset the wheelbase to 1mm either side of the arms. Diff may also want to go up to 5k minimum as that will also help on power.

I think the big difference in front and rear width is whats causing a large majority of the issue, along with the droop

Try those settings and see how you go.
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:03 AM   #1556
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Originally Posted by maRRRco View Post
I use italian tyres, Sp racing 36, with wd40 as additive. Setup sheet is coming.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkwmy23kw7...table.pdf?dl=0
Wide and low .5 on the front blocks would probably be a better option. And you could try 2.6 all round or hard progressives on the front, springs depend on how bumpy the track is as well as traction levels. You also have big difference with the springs you are using front to rear and the shock angles, base point would be 1 up from in all the way round. As TryHard has said just start with standard wheel base. Ride height is also quite extreme front to rear, usually just run .2 different front to rear so 5mm f 5.2 rear, depending again how bumpy the track is.
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Last edited by Bar; 09-14-2017 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:00 AM   #1557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maRRRco View Post
I use italian tyres, Sp racing 36, with wd40 as additive. Setup sheet is coming.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkwmy23kw7...table.pdf?dl=0
Your setup is all over the board, I think it'll be easier to start from scratch and tune from there.

Try this setup from Halifax in the UK. Big outdoor track, lots of steering needed without compromising stability:

XRAY ::: Set-up Sheet - T4'17

A few key points:
- Definitely change to 1.1 pistons. No one runs 1.2 ever.
- Get some proper tyre additive, whatever the fast guys at your track are using.
- If you still have on-power understeer on Ollys setup, you can reduce the rear toe, or try a progressive front spring. Or go to 7k diff.
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:46 AM   #1558
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Sorry, just my misunderstanding, front and rear drop are exchanged. Now I'm reading all your suggestions.

p.s ok, I've read, but I don't know why you suggest a wider front width, 0.5 or 1.0 at the moment doesn't matter, why wider?
A narrower front will give more steering and more reactivity, in all corners parts, so I moved into that direction.
I'll follow other suggestions but please help me to understand why a wider front. Thank you so much.

Last edited by maRRRco; 09-14-2017 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:04 AM   #1559
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Originally Posted by maRRRco View Post
Sorry, just my misunderstanding, front and rear drop are exchanged. Now I'm reading all your suggestions.

p.s ok, I've read, but I don't know why you suggest a wider front width, 0.5 or 1.0 at the moment doesn't matter, why wider?
A narrower front will give more steering and more reactivity, in all corners parts, so I moved into that direction.
I'll follow other suggestions but please help me to understand why a wider front. Thank you so much.
Remember there is a difference in how the front end can be shortened. You can move the pins in by changing the inserts in the the suspension blocks, and you can also use thinner wheel hexes.
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Old 09-14-2017, 01:28 PM   #1560
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Remember there is a difference in how the front end can be shortened. You can move the pins in by changing the inserts in the the suspension blocks, and you can also use thinner wheel hexes.
Yes, of course, I did both but... is there any difference?
Ok, by changing the inserts you change also shocks inclinations, for this reason I'm using the first hole from the bottom in the front tower instead of the second hole, to compensate the new inclination.
I don't know other differences and again I don't understand why a wider front should give me more steering, maybe changing inserts would help and thinner exes shouln't?
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