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Old 08-12-2016, 11:53 AM   #1
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Default Let's talk modified 1/12

Here is a topic-- how can mod 1/12 be brought back to reality (I.e. such that more than 5-10 guys world wide can run it)?

Solution suggestions so far include..

6.5t blinky instead of open motor/ESC
Smaller mah batteries
Longer races
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Old 08-12-2016, 12:18 PM   #2
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Capping motor wind would create a class in itself, smaller mah and longer races is something that wouldn't help making it interesting. Longer races just mean you have to be with utmost concentration for even more time and less mah means you have to preserve battery or run more efficient electronics/car setup, that would make even less people capable of running them.

For me 1/12th mod would benefit from:
2s shorty batteries- more efficient, cheaper and widely available;
Capping rear spoiler height for decrease in downforce and tire wear, if not the race to higher and higher downforce will never end.

I think it's just that, bringing the speed down by having less "aero grip" and going to more efficient electronic setup would widen the target audience. About higher voltage, remember no one is prohibiting from running a boosted 3.5 with 2s voltage but that's not realistically possible so I think a "wind cap" or gentleman's agreement will ensue.
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Old 08-12-2016, 12:42 PM   #3
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I have toyed with 1/12 modified a couple of times, but am a far ways off from actually running it at a race. I would be more inclined to pursue it if it were blinky 6.5.
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Old 08-12-2016, 12:46 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
(I.e. such that more than 5-10 guys world wide can run it)?
Somewhat independent of the discussion about changing mod 1/12 but more out of my own curiosity, what metric can be used to determine if somebody is capable of running mod 1/12? At what point is someone deemed capable?

I ask because I have raced mod 1/12 at quite a few races, but am still very much a newcomer to the class (and rc on the whole) compared to the rest of the field. At 2014 Worlds I was 4 laps off of Marc R and Alex, but in the same main as Cyrul and Rick H. At Reedy Invite earlier this year my fastest run was 8 seconds off of Spashett's fastest. At MHIC earlier this year I was about two laps off of Keven in quals and then three off in the main after my own first lap screw up. Am I capable of running the class? I think I am, but by your definition above I pretty clearly am not one of the 5-10 guys.

Just a thought, as I think having an understanding of what makes someone 'capable' or 'accepted' when racing a class could help determine how said class needs to evolve.

(Of course this begs the next logical (but tangential) question - to say that if I am incapable of running the class, why is there no similar discussion for people who are 3-4 laps off in other classes?)

Also, I realize this could potentially contradict my earlier question, but I would like to request that we avoid specifically calling out folks in this thread. Is the pool of talent in mod in the US pretty shallow? Yes. Does that mean we need to specifically call out people who are off-pace? Nope.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:06 PM   #5
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IMO calling it mod and then putting a cap on it as to spec esc or motor is basically another spec class. but that's just my opinion
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:12 PM   #6
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At this point it seems to me that everyone is passionate and cares about the class. With that said I say relax and see how the Halloween classic goes. If they have 25-30 guys with great racing and the speeds are still good then it's a success. If they don't have the 18 needed it's a flop. Numbers don't lie and some kind of a change is needed so give it a chance and let's see what the outcome and final verdict is.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:15 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth View Post
Capping motor wind would create a class in itself, smaller mah and longer races is something that wouldn't help making it interesting. Longer races just mean you have to be with utmost concentration for even more time and less mah means you have to preserve battery or run more efficient electronics/car setup, that would make even less people capable of running them.

For me 1/12th mod would benefit from:
2s shorty batteries- more efficient, cheaper and widely available;
Capping rear spoiler height for decrease in downforce and tire wear, if not the race to higher and higher downforce will never end.

I think it's just that, bringing the speed down by having less "aero grip" and going to more efficient electronic setup would widen the target audience. About higher voltage, remember no one is prohibiting from running a boosted 3.5 with 2s voltage but that's not realistically possible so I think a "wind cap" or gentleman's agreement will ensue.
I'm confused. You're saying that to make it more accessible to more people, you want to give the cars more speed, with less grip, using more expensive batteries. I'm not sold if I'm honest!!

I've said for some years mod 12th needs to change. I don't have the answer, but I think fair play to the uk guys who went to out egm and decided that there was something that was at least worth a try. May not appeal to the purest, but you never know it just might help.
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:03 PM   #8
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Sorry if my previous comment(s) were found to be offensive. Such was certainly not my intent. Anyway, a few of the recent posts reminded me of a phrase that my buddies used way back when we were all in our late teens and early twenties and we spent every dime that we could earn on our muscle cars. We'd joke to each other "if you can control it, then it still doesn't have enough power". That collective mentality cost us all a whole lot of money and we tore up a lot of motor parts trying to make "enough power". Well, Improved technology and equipment has pushed 1/12th mod across the line of controllability for most guys, even those with plenty of experience but with less than superhuman reflexes and driving skills. For the sake of close, exciting, attainable, and enjoyable mod racing among more that just a very small (and shrinking) handful of elite drivers, it would make sense to at least try dialing back some on the available power. That's really the point that I was trying to make. When an experienced, dedicated, and accomplished racer runs way off the pace even at his best and he DNFs 2 out of 3 runs, then that just might indicate that having too much power is not beneficial. How far back to dial the power and how to achieve a cap on it, well those are topics for open discussion and\or experimentation. The current suggestion of running blinky 6.5s does seem like a reasonable place to start.......especially since that is what the euros have already decided to experiment with. Or - Going with a 2cell battery and a milder motor (TBD) also seems like an approach with some merit to it, and that is the route that seems to be gaining momentum in Asia. It seems that we in the US do tend to be more set in our ways. It is worth noting though that Mr Cyrul (one of the superhumans who can actually exploit nearly unlimited power) has expressed his regret that mod 1/12th is not as close, competitive, and exciting as it used to be. Improving the racing should be the goal, and slowing the mod cars to more manageable speeds should help us move towards that goal.
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:05 PM   #9
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Maybe I wasn't clear enough, just because there's 2s voltage doesn't mean we will run 4.5T with 2s. Japan uses 2s batteries on 1/12th cars...

Last edited by 30Tooth; 08-13-2016 at 04:32 AM.
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:13 PM   #10
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The current suggestion of running blinky 6.5s does seem like a reasonable place to start.......especially since that is what the euros have already decided to experiment with.
Just one small clarification - it is only BRCA that has decided (thus far) to make that change. I don't believe EFRA has voted (decided?) to follow that rule, which means European Champs (if held today) would run open mod just like before.

If someone knows otherwise, though, please speak up!
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:14 PM   #11
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I'm not sure what I think yet, but I do want to call out some BS that seems baked into this discussion.

It's this idea that limiting the motor will turn Mod 1/12th into a motor and battery war like high-wind spec racing.

I defy anyone who participated in the Mod 1/12th glory days I've heard so much about, when it was 8 minutes of extreme tension to not dump, that there was not a motor and battery battle going on at all times. I guarantee that there was a frenzied bench effort for voltage and efficiency, getting more and more maniacal the further up the sheet you looked.

At some point the definition of Mod 1/12th morphed to mean "indifference to motor and battery." When? And why must that expectation prevail going forward?

Sure, 6.5-turns will reintroduce some amount of motor and battery tuning into the contest. But a 6.5 is a lot of motor. Way more than the next fastest normal option at 13.5. Given half a season, Mod 1/12th at 6.5/blinky is going to be fast fast fast--still the fastest car on the track by a wide margin and requiring exquisite throttle control to be good.

And maybe a few more people will try it.

Maybe some of those battery and motor masters hanging out in the Stock fields! Wouldn't that be something?
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:14 PM   #12
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Possibly we keep equipment the same but change the race format? What I hate seeing is the leader & same lap challengers having to hold back working thru traffic not once but up to as many as 10 times in 8 minutes.

We could limit the size of mains based upon a percent delta in total laps. Some math and stats wizard could offer up a formula...
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:53 PM   #13
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If u guys run it speccing cheapo electronics/lipo from ebay then ill get one
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Possibly we keep equipment the same but change the race format? What I hate seeing is the leader & same lap challengers having to hold back working thru traffic not once but up to as many as 10 times in 8 minutes.

We could limit the size of mains based upon a percent delta in total laps. Some math and stats wizard could offer up a formula...
It could be like motorcycle qualifying where they put a cutoff at 110% or so of the fastest time, so if #1 qualifier runs 50 laps you have to run a 46 to make the A and everybody else is in lower mains.
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Old 08-12-2016, 03:05 PM   #15
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There is no need to adjust this class.. Like tc mod it should be reserved for those who feel they have advanced as far as they feel they can in their skill level in stock.
Part of the draw of mod for me is none of that motor of the week or spec batteries/ tires BS.
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