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Old 08-18-2016, 12:22 AM   #121
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I agree with Josh. The issue with Mod is that not enough people step up from slower classes. Which presents the real question of why don't they step up? Mostly out of fear. Fear of not being as competitive, fear of it being to much for them to handle, fear of damaging their equipment, fear of the unknown.

Current mod racers need to step up. Go to the track on busy practice days. Talk to the local guys. Help them out, suggest they try mod. Loan them a motor to try (it doesn't have to be a 3.5t boosted to the moon). Get a group of guys together and go together, with the intent of each helping one other person to try modified on a particular day. Help them understand how to better setup a car for mod. Help them learn about the bottom and middle area of the throttle that they might be unfamiliar with. Put together little lessons for groups.

Many mod drivers are looked at as "elite" and seem unapproachable to many, which makes participating in mod even tougher. So remember that the guys you want to get into mod are afraid. Afraid of the speed, afraid of not being able to control the car, afraid of looking foolish. WE have to help them overcome that. Don't worry about the stock for life guys, get the guys who want to have some fun trying something new. You will be surprised at how many guys just need a nudge, or an opportunity to try it.
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:35 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul View Post
The guys willing to try it are willing to because it's SPEC...lol... They race SPEC, this is a faster version of that.
What is your definition of spec, everyone running the same thing? So wouldn't everyone running 3.5 boosted also be considered a spec?

I can't claim to know everyone's reasons for not running mod, but a few of the guys who run stock have flat out said they don't run it because the current form of indoor Mod is flat out stupid. At this point, nobody is claiming that 6.5 blinky is the savior of the class, but it's something to try and with enough grassroots movement for change from both sides of the pond maybe the manufacturers and large governing bodies will finally get together and do something.

I do get what you are saying (in your ever-diplomatic Cyrul way ) I know you don't care for the limited motor idea, but you do care about the hobby and class.
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:47 AM   #123
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Who else is just mad that Josh didn't call them out

Anyone got some thoughts on a tech process to limit mah? We could make this a new ROAR spec but eithiut an enforcement there is no point. Stickers are always lying... Not to mention people smart enough to pop open a case and swap out cells.

What if the foot print of the case changed? Length? Width? Height?
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Old 08-18-2016, 04:23 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Who else is just mad that Josh didn't call them out

Anyone got some thoughts on a tech process to limit mah? We could make this a new ROAR spec but eithiut an enforcement there is no point. Stickers are always lying... Not to mention people smart enough to pop open a case and swap out cells.

What if the foot print of the case changed? Length? Width? Height?
Weight limit

In some of the spec oval racing we do at NORCAR the battery weight it checked and then stickered.

I have also seen each person's battery have to be cycled then stickered.
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Old 08-18-2016, 06:34 AM   #125
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Make the cell not as high. Make it small enough to max out to the mah that we want it reduced to.
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Old 08-18-2016, 06:42 AM   #126
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If you are going to attempt to make the cars more manageable/forgiving by way of rules, I think a body change would be the simplest to tech and easiest to implement. I am of course biased because I would love to see 787b and 962's battle it out instead of the wedge shaped things we call cars now.
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Old 08-18-2016, 06:46 AM   #127
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Spec of bodies -- like Nascar COT?
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Old 08-18-2016, 06:53 AM   #128
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Do you get 3 attempts to go thru the laser before you lose practice time?? Lol
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Old 08-18-2016, 07:09 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Spec of bodies -- like Nascar COT?
That comment deserves a slap!

If you change the body rules, that means the body guys have to design and pull all new bodies. And then they have to be [fill in the blank] approved. Notice I didn't say ROAR. For this process to go through ROAR it would take at least a year. That's not a shot at ROAR, that's just the way things are.

Also, 1/12 is based on LeMans Prototype cars. Have you seen those body designs lately?

Track design. Over the years I've spoken to some of the top skill drivers, and they tend to favor very tight, lots of turns tracks. The type of track where driver skill is the most important element to winning, not motor or battery. The problem is lower skill drivers like me can find these tracks a little too hard, and not as much fun. Also far more likely to hit boards and break stuff.

And the worst part? There is no happy medium. No matter what you do, someone will complain.
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Old 08-18-2016, 07:11 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul View Post
Modified will grow when club tracks, races and INDUSTRY COMPANIES get their best guys out of stock. Yes, I ran it against my better judgement this past year+ and I can tell you now, I will NEVER race it at an event again. All the guys signed up for Mod - Should NOT be in 17.5... Wayne, Joe, Witta, Knapp and probably the entire A Main at the Champs, Birds and any other major race should not be in 17.5. They should all be in 13.5 and Mod. Want to fix 1/12 Mod, start with the stock lifers that are all good enough to move up and out of the class that should be for the newest racers in our sport.
Boom goes the dynamite! Thank you, Josh.

Here in Japan, a good chunk of last years stock A-main finalists moved up to modified. Why? Because they believe that it's important to open up the opportunity for other new and up and coming (stock) drivers to make the A-main. This will create a continual feed into the 1/12th scale class.

At my local track there are more modified drivers than stock. Why? Well we've achieved and won several stock A-main classes. Once you've achieved reaching the a-main you consider moving onto bigger challenges... i.e modified.

Modified makes you work work work work work - and ultimately become a better 1/12th driver.
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:10 AM   #131
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When Lipo first came into the industry, I begged the powers at be in ROAR and IFMAR to create a standard for Lipo battery performance to keep the speeds in check. I proposed a 2-3 year evaluation of performance and meeting with mfg's to understand the current performance gain along with possible future development yielding a reduction in case size. Be it 2-3mm in all directions or just in length/width, whatever it took to maintain say 5000mah in 1s (the capacity at that time)...

Off-road has gone to shorty packs as they don't need all the extra mah. TC Mod is using "low CG" packs with less mah because we don't need it. So, this again shows how these classes are grip limited yet still run open motor/speedo to allow drivers to tune to their feel/style preference.

Nate - This is Modified - A class not restricted to a pile of motor rules in order to try and control speed. Really, the 1/12 Mod motor I've run is basically the same since we switched to Lipo/brushless. I can run my motor from the ROAR Nats back at Portland and still be competitive today. Meanwhile, how many spec motors have raised the bar since then forcing racers to keep up with the times?? 6.5 will be no different.

I also agree 10000% on a rear body height reduction. I'll measure past bodies vs current to give an idea of the rake difference and rear side dam/wing height. This is another thing I'd like to test and even modify some current bodies to see the lap time reduction.

Hanulec - I've seen you drive mod... There's a lot of guys that should be included on that list that have put in the time and have the skills to move out of 17.5... Yourself, the Klingforths, Sydor, Gee, Larry... The list is too long. If we took all the guys that had the skills/experience right now and kicked them out of stock and they still ran 2 classes, Mod (TC and 1/12) would be one of or the biggest class at these races...
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:12 AM   #132
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So..... I was a little off the cuff a post ago. I still stand behind my "man up" post, but yes, current mod is too fast and too intimidating for spec drivers to even try it.

1S cells are paralleled inside. Why? For capacity. 8000mah? That was some secrete voodoo stuff 15yrs ago we could only dream about one day. So easy enough, lets remove one of the cells from the pack. Cost and weight go down. Capacity will take many years to catch up to what we have available now. A single cell should even lower the insane punch.

One of the things I really miss of the brushed mod/nicad days of old was the strategy. Getting your car to go the distance, be competitive and have the discipline .... that was rewarding.

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Old 08-18-2016, 08:18 AM   #133
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Side note - I was also super pissed that 2s lipo was created in the "box" size to fit 1/10 off-road cars. They took zero consideration to the fact we were running 3-4mm chassis in TC at the time with top decks built to the top of the cells that were sunk into the chassis. In reality, the max 2s case size should have been 4mm shorter so that they didn't obsolete every TC on the market. This caused every mfg to create a new "lipo specific" car that raised top decks and cost EVERYONE in the hobby/industry a lot of money. Well thought out and common sense rules work way better than from the hip, shotgun rules.... I fought a lot with ROAR and IFMAR... Shocking I know...
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:20 AM   #134
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Brian - What's your address? I need to send you a case of your favorite frosty beverage!!
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:34 AM   #135
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I would agree that there are alot of stock guys that shouldn't be in stock. The same crap is happening in oval with the guys who run truck...lol..

If I was 25 years younger, had the ambition/time to practice, and had the eyesight and reflexes I used to I'd run Modified, just not the way it is now. I'm too old and slow...lol..

If things were closer to how it used to be I'd be all in

I don't know if the 6.5 motor will help or hurt things, but something needs to be done.

I really like limiting the battery mah or voltage idea, It's something I will try in 2 weeks, oval this weekend.
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