R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-30-2016, 05:46 AM   #271
Tech Elite
 
howardcano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 3,543
Trader Rating: 35 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
1/12 was always a battery war.. Remember the on grid bump boxes...
I remember that. I also recall one guy's girlfriend on the grid, on her hands and knees, waiting for the last possible moment to unplug the bump box. That's dedication! He later married her.

She was also a fit and attractive lady. It was just as likely that her function was to be a distraction to the other drivers, rather than to top up the battery.

So, back to my question: Is this where the drivers want mod to go? Back to battery/motor wars? Of the two choices, I'd guess the motor restriction would be a lesser evil. Plus it's easier to do handout motors than handout batteries, if it comes to that.
__________________
Howard Cano
When race results are re-calculated using the IOF (Index Of Fun), I always win.
1993 ROAR 1/8 Pan National Champion
howardcano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 07:02 AM   #272
Tech Champion
 
hanulec's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: @ the post office
Posts: 8,460
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Default

If battery wars means hot, or at least RC hot, grid girls ... I know what I pick
__________________
FJ / ROAR #2-122945 / MaxRotation FPV Drone Racing / Shop@ Awesomatix USA / Wild Turbo Fan / Mon-Tech Racing / RocheRC USA / Side Piece /
LRP / John's BSR Tires / TeamEAM / TQ Wire / R1 / Team Scream / PCR / MIX
RacerLog wiki Awesomatix A700 / 2wd offroad 4 life
hanulec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 07:42 AM   #273
Tech Elite
 
chris moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Phx AZ
Posts: 3,760
Trader Rating: 87 (99%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
I remember that. I also recall one guy's girlfriend on the grid, on her hands and knees, waiting for the last possible moment to unplug the bump box. That's dedication! He later married her.

She was also a fit and attractive lady. It was just as likely that her function was to be a distraction to the other drivers, rather than to top up the battery.

So, back to my question: Is this where the drivers want mod to go? Back to battery/motor wars? Of the two choices, I'd guess the motor restriction would be a lesser evil. Plus it's easier to do handout motors than handout batteries, if it comes to that.

If you restrict mod either through battery or motor wind you will have motor/battery wars, real or perceived. The question is will restricting the class improve turnouts
__________________
Sponsered by:

CMDezigns Paint Works
https://www.facebook.com/pages/CM-Dezigns/259989190822177?ref=hl
chris moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 08:13 AM   #274
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,095
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

How about this for the future of mod 1/12:

Open motor

Blinky ESC
Proven and widely available. Dramatically reduces the number of variables.

Spec tire
It's time.

2S LiPo
Double voltage, but half(ish) capacity. As capacity grows, consider reducing max start voltage to 8.3V or lower to keep speeds in check. The game becomes more about efficiency and making run time than who can drive balls out for 8 minutes. Something many people seem to think is an improvement. This should naturally bring with it a reduction in speed, especially without ESC timing available.

No boosters or receiver packs
If you allow them, everybody will have to run one since it will be seen as a way to keep more capacity in the main battery. Keep things simple.

2S LiFe could also be considered, but it doesn't look like capacity of the available cells is high enough. Unless of course you consider making 1/12 races shorter, but apparently that is verboten.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 08:19 AM   #275
Tech Elite
 
howardcano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 3,543
Trader Rating: 35 (100%+)
Default

Then the only thing we've really changed would be the spec tires. A 2s LiPo with half the mAh rating as a 1s Lipo contains exactly the same amount of energy. Mate the 2s LiPo to a motor having twice the turn count of the one previously used for 1s LiPo, and the performance and duration will be identical.
__________________
Howard Cano
When race results are re-calculated using the IOF (Index Of Fun), I always win.
1993 ROAR 1/8 Pan National Champion
howardcano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 08:32 AM   #276
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,095
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
Then the only thing we've really changed would be the spec tires. A 2s LiPo with half the mAh rating as a 1s Lipo contains exactly the same amount of energy. Mate the 2s LiPo to a motor having twice the turn count of the one previously used for 1s LiPo, and the performance and duration will be identical.
Is it that plain on the track though? Are higher wind motors less efficient, and is it enough to make a difference? Will blinky further reduce efficiency? I seem to remember taking a lot less out of my packs in the boosted days.

While I still think it's a questionable decision to encourage the dumping of LiPo, make the max voltage in tech 4.05/cell and nobody will be running a boosted 3.5 anymore.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 08:44 AM   #277
Tech Elite
 
howardcano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 3,543
Trader Rating: 35 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Are higher wind motors less efficient, and is it enough to make a difference?
No. The only losses that will be different with the 2s-plus-double-turn-count combo will be from the resistance of the wires and ESC, which are already quite low. But if significant, that means the total system with the 2s-plus-double-turn-count combo will actually have a bit more power and efficiency-- which is going the wrong way for our purposes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Will blinky further reduce efficiency? I seem to remember taking a lot less out of my packs in the boosted days.
Yes, by quite a bit.
__________________
Howard Cano
When race results are re-calculated using the IOF (Index Of Fun), I always win.
1993 ROAR 1/8 Pan National Champion
howardcano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 08:50 AM   #278
Tech Master
 
miller tyme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,634
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Is it that plain on the track though? Are higher wind motors less efficient, and is it enough to make a difference? Will blinky further reduce efficiency? I seem to remember taking a lot less out of my packs in the boosted days.

While I still think it's a questionable decision to encourage the dumping of LiPo, make the max voltage in tech 4.05/cell and nobody will be running a boosted 3.5 anymore.
4.05 is pointless, I know personally a lot of the guys, myself included, already limit charge to between 4.0 and 4.1, hell we've joked among ourselves that we need a minimum voltage spec for Mod
__________________
Ken Miller
RCTarget - Capricorn - Sanwa - Pro Level RC - MAX Power - EA Motorsorts - TQ Wire

LONG LIVE OPEN MODIFIED
miller tyme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 08:59 AM   #279
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,095
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

It's totally non-scientific, and probably not something we can rely on in the future, but...

Right now, the highest capacity 1S packs are around 8000mah. The highest capacity 2S shorty packs (which are in a much larger case) come in around 5500mah. Presumably the need to cram more physical cells into a small space reduces available capacity since each cell has its own shell, and increasing that uses more of the available room.

No doubt this will improve with time, but it seems like requiring more physical cells has a similar effect to reducing the maximum allowable size of the battery case. Does 2S do this?
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 09:06 AM   #280
Tech Elite
 
howardcano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 3,543
Trader Rating: 35 (100%+)
Default

I believe most of our 1s packs are already 2 cells, but wired in parallel. I'm sure there are people reading here that can verify (or disprove) this.
__________________
Howard Cano
When race results are re-calculated using the IOF (Index Of Fun), I always win.
1993 ROAR 1/8 Pan National Champion
howardcano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 09:08 AM   #281
Tech Master
 
patorz31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edmonton Ab
Posts: 1,390
Default

Use a 2s in a 1s case like they run in Japan for stock. The size limits them to 3800mah to 4000 mah.
__________________
Northern Alberta Scale Car Auto Racers Pres. and Promotions
TEAM POWERS, RACE-OPT, SCHUMACHER RACING,R-Factor, Bezerk RC
patorz31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 09:09 AM   #282
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,095
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
I believe most of our 1s packs are already 2 cells, but wired in parallel. I'm sure there are people reading here that can verify (or disprove) this.
Yeah, I did a little research and edited, seems to be the case. Not sure it's possible to tech battery construction externally either, so probably not something you can make a rule around.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 09:10 AM   #283
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,095
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patorz31 View Post
Use a 2s in a 1s case like they run in Japan for stock. The size limits them to 3800mah to 4000 mah.
That's what I was thinking, but I'm not sure if it's a limitation that could be easily overcome with different construction. Not clued enough about batteries.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 09:14 AM   #284
Tech Elite
 
howardcano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 3,543
Trader Rating: 35 (100%+)
Default

Here's a random thought:

As I understand it, the modified class is supposed to reward those drivers with the best car control and (especially) throttle control skills. If a very hard spec tire having poor grip is selected, then the lap times will be slower, and there will be no question that everyone has enough horsepower. Carried to it logical conclusion, then, all races for modified class should be conducted on ice.

Reductio ad absurdum.

I'll go take my pills now.
__________________
Howard Cano
When race results are re-calculated using the IOF (Index Of Fun), I always win.
1993 ROAR 1/8 Pan National Champion
howardcano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 09:15 AM   #285
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,095
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
Here's a random thought:

As I understand it, the modified class is supposed to reward those drivers with the best car control and (especially) throttle control skills. If a very hard spec tire having poor grip is selected, then the lap times will be slower, and there will be no question that everyone has enough horsepower. Carried to it logical conclusion, then, all races for modified class should be conducted on ice.

Reductio ad absurdum.

I'll go take my pills now.
I think you just made the case for rubber tire 1/12.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 10:09 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net