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Old 08-19-2016, 08:04 AM   #166
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I just want to throw this out there, just to see the reaction it gets. And I expect the reactions to be passionate, so this might be fun.

If you consider there's Vintage Trans Am, RC GT, and 17.5 touring car, do we really need a 12th scale stock?
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:13 AM   #167
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PutAwayWet - Stock racers should not have full sponsorships and stay in stock forever. This is supposed to be the sport's entry level class where racers can of course enjoy the hobby, learn and evolve. I understand some people do not have the skills to move up and I have zero beef with that. I do have a beef with people in the U.S. who have such a screwed up mindset that stock racers are more valuable than those who move up and compete in modified.... See comment to Syndrome... Aspire to greater... From a guy with a day job, 2 kids wife and other places to allocate my time and $ to...
Not to turn this thread into a fight but I would like to point out for everyone how many stock races you have won, and done so in dominating fashion. In fact I would say you are one of the most decorated and heavily sponsored stock racers ever. For a period of multiple years as recent as 2014-2015 you won EVERY SINGLE STOCK RACE. And I don't mean just one or two stock races, if I recall didn't you win almost every single stock race you attended?

Now I don't know how many years you have been racing Josh but judging by your 30-40 national titles it's a lot. Therefore wouldn't you be the biggest offender of what your now saying shouldn't happen? I'm curious what made you change your tune? If we all just ran stock for as many years as you did that would leave the majority of the "stock stars" at least another 20 years of good stock racing. I'm guessing you won your first national championship before Kyle Klingforth was even born.

So because you no longer want to do something it's now not ok for anyone who is a good stock racer to run it? Pot meet kettle?
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:39 AM   #168
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Not to turn this thread into a fight but I would like to point out for everyone how many stock races you have won, and done so in dominating fashion. In fact I would say you are one of the most decorated and heavily sponsored stock racers ever. For a period of multiple years as recent as 2014-2015 you won EVERY SINGLE STOCK RACE. And I don't mean just one or two stock races, if I recall didn't you win almost every single stock race you attended?

Now I don't know how many years you have been racing Josh but judging by your 30-40 national titles it's a lot. Therefore wouldn't you be the biggest offender of what your now saying shouldn't happen? I'm curious what made you change your tune? If we all just ran stock for as many years as you did that would leave the majority of the "stock stars" at least another 20 years of good stock racing. I'm guessing you won your first national championship before Kyle Klingforth was even born.

So because you no longer want to do something it's now not ok for anyone who is a good stock racer to run it? Pot meet kettle?
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:45 AM   #169
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I think its time to stop the commentary on people and get back to the subject. It is a difficult one that needs our thoughts to find some good ideas that will lead to a solution if possible.

Please. :-)

Thanks.
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:52 AM   #170
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I'm only going to comment on this once and be done.. Maybe I'm totally wrong here but when I started racing 7-8 years ago, I wanted to run against the best guys in 17.5. I didn't care if I got a damn trophy or not, or ended up in the D main or not. That's not why I paid out of pocket to attend every big race in the country, I wanted the best.

The top 20 drivers in tc and 1/12 stock classes are all sponsored some how. That same top 20 are the ones that give the most support as a group to all the national and regional races in the form of entries. I'm confused on how taking away 40 entries at a race like MICH or small race like Dallas last weekend would help the hobby? I can tell you I wouldn't have spent $1000 to go race one class last weekend....

Print all of the top results from last year. The top 20 stock 1/12 and tc guys are the ones that do the majority of the traveling. Maybe the problem isn't the stock guys after all.... Go ahead and put me on blast, but when I show up at your track this year, and drop cash for 3 entries and I bring 5-6 guys with me that are all sponsored and all run stock, I bet you'll take my money and appreciate it when we leave. helping your track stay open for another year.

IMO, the on-road scene is great right now. Every national race last year sold out or was close to it. Keep it going and let's come together for Christ sake. Looking forward to seeing everyone this winter!! Looking forward to trying out 6.5 at the HC.
John awesome post. I agree with you 100%. I travel to big races to race against the best to see where i need to improve. Anyone that says Stock racing is only for beginners can @#$@)#%@#.

I used to complain about high level drives running stock classes but over the years I've grown up and understand why they do it and how it's needed at the national event level. Yes it would be nice to see the top stock guys start running Mod, but many of them don't have the facilities at home to practice. Which Mod takes a lot of practice to be comfortable with. Once you start you'll find out it's not all that bad thou. Mod is what you make of it, there's no one holding a gun to your head saying you have to run a 3.5. You can go to a national race running a 8.5 with timing and be competitive. This is all Mod needs, people to realize big motor's don't make you fast. It's your driving that makes you fast. It's VERY unfortunate we need a governing body to make people realize this.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:00 AM   #171
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I think its time to stop the commentary on people and get back to the subject. It is a difficult one that needs our thoughts to find some good ideas that will lead to a solution if possible.

Please. :-)

Thanks.
-a
There is no solution for Mod. Its an open class and leave it as such. We all play with RC cars to have fun. If your not having fun running Mod don't run it. If you don't like running a 3.5 motor, motor down to a 5.5 or 7.5 and add timing. If Josh, Keven, Paul, Donny ran a 6.5, 8.5 in there 12th scales they'd still win because they're great drivers it's not the power in there cars.

By going to 6.5 blinky all your doing is making this class like all the other spec classes. The motor and battery of the month. Manufactures will love this new rule if ROAR goes there. They're sales will jump because people will now have to buy the latest motor and battery instead of using 5 year old shit. So continue to try an push this topic you'll pay for it in the end in a big way.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:29 AM   #172
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Personally I agree with leaving mod "open", its why I race and enjoy racing mod. I agree that there are drivers with many years of experience, and those are the ones that show me with enough work I can attain that as well. If they can do it, so can I.

I do think that if there are any good ideas how to see increased numbers, so it doesn't disappear, I think we should pursue them.

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Old 08-19-2016, 10:38 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
I just want to throw this out there, just to see the reaction it gets. And I expect the reactions to be passionate, so this might be fun.

If you consider there's Vintage Trans Am, RC GT, and 17.5 touring car, do we really need a 12th scale stock?
I thought about that. Kill 1/12th Stock classes and make it just Mod, if some drivers want to run same motor wind between them just agree on a number and done. Just fixed Mod see?
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:59 AM   #174
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I'm only going to comment on this once and be done.. Maybe I'm totally wrong here but when I started racing 7-8 years ago, I wanted to run against the best guys in 17.5. I didn't care if I got a damn trophy or not, or ended up in the D main or not. That's not why I paid out of pocket to attend every big race in the country, I wanted the best.

The top 20 drivers in tc and 1/12 stock classes are all sponsored some how. That same top 20 are the ones that give the most support as a group to all the national and regional races in the form of entries. I'm confused on how taking away 40 entries at a race like MICH or small race like Dallas last weekend would help the hobby? I can tell you I wouldn't have spent $1000 to go race one class last weekend....

Print all of the top results from last year. The top 20 stock 1/12 and tc guys are the ones that do the majority of the traveling. Maybe the problem isn't the stock guys after all.... Go ahead and put me on blast, but when I show up at your track this year, and drop cash for 3 entries and I bring 5-6 guys with me that are all sponsored and all run stock, I bet you'll take my money and appreciate it when we leave. helping your track stay open for another year.

IMO, the on-road scene is great right now. Every national race last year sold out or was close to it. Keep it going and let's come together for Christ sake. Looking forward to seeing everyone this winter!! Looking forward to trying out 6.5 at the HC.
John, I owned a track for a few years. As for you and 5 other fully sponsored racers showing up for a race, it didn't matter for me financially, those types never buy anything, they get it for free. Just race entry. i appreciated the journeyman racer more. They spend time at my track, buy product and show up week in and out. I have also had my share of full ride guys at my track. The only one that showed all the time was Drew Ellis, but heck, I gave him a key because he helped me a lot, and it wasn't from him racing, it was him helping others get their cars figured out. Now, you also run and wipe the floor with my 10-20 local racers and cause some to quit, because, in their eyes, how do they compete with someone getting everything for free?
When ROAR had the rule, i think for 1 year, that a stock champion could not run stock for 1 year, was the only year I saw an influx into then a 19 turn class and mod.

Nothing will be done about full sponsored racers in stock though. Cause that is where the money is for manufacturers, not mod. When you want to know why things are, most of the time, just follow the money and your answer will be there.
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Old 08-19-2016, 01:58 PM   #175
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I followed that thread from the start,and didn't get why the general concent on finding every imaginable way to slow mod down....it's open mod after all and u can run whatever u can handle no one is forcing u to run specific wind motor.

That was until I saw last week donny lia running his mod 12 scale on the 360 black carpet track, and behold what on earth name is that super fast thing going around the track!!....my heart was pounding with every fast corner he is taking with no visible gab between the car and the boards,and double pounding down the straight into the sweeper.

At first I was wondering why the group of racers that wants the stock racers to step up and go mod, why dont they step it up themselves and race mod as we know it without any restrictions??
But again u think deeper...how many average fast racer can actually pilot that car I saw with professionalism? ...u gusseted right not many.

To get to that level of superfast racing u need more than talent...u need the skill and the means to master that 1/2 scale open mod class

How is the average fast Joe gonna compete with factory drivers that get paid to race? That's all what the do practice and tune
How is he gonna compete with fully sponsored drivers that have unlimited access for track time,parts and tires with company's backing up all the way?? If u destroy ur car on 1 of them boards,no problem u will get another.
The average fast Joe who comes racing 1 day a week and that if he have the wife permission for the track time as well as the funds....what's his chance against them super fast guys? It's little with no fun when u are laps down.

It takes a lot and a lot and a lot of time to perfect that 3.5 turbo car.

To be that fast is not as simple as the poor fast Joe think, after building that immaculate friction free car with that shiny dyno printed 6 turn motor.and a couple of set if tires ..and then get thrown with them guys who have every possible mean and time to perfect their skill and setups.

Not many guys will be willing to jump to mod if they see top factory drivers going around the track with that speed.
I am not the only one who sees that,that's why the cry to slow mod down

To get people to run mod u need a slower class...leave all out open mod for them factory sponsored drivers to duke it out among them selves...it's fun to watch anyways...who am I to tell them slow down so I can race with u without putting me 5 laps down.

6.5 blinky motor could be a reasonable answer...I saw one of our fast drivers going around the track with it...it's fast and needs a lot of driving skill but it's manageable speed...this is the area where a lot of fast racers could fit in

U wont need the motor of the month or battery for that class with our average fast joe...it's handfull to pilot to begin with....only and only if the super fast factory guys stepped down to that class where it's gonna turn into battery motor war among themselves. ...and basically it's back to square 1

On another note...that 12 scale 17.5 on the black carpet is not gonna cut it for a stock class...it's really slow...it should be something little faster than that.
Just my observations ....and by the way I wished some of the top factory sposnored drivers have some input in this thread,to see how are things from their prespective and from diffrent angle...and thx to Josh Cyrul for the participation
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Old 08-19-2016, 04:08 PM   #176
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Just curious, all those that think a slower wind motor will help mod..... Why is 13.5 all but dead? If those stock guys want an easier step up, it's already there.
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Old 08-19-2016, 04:39 PM   #177
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I think 13.5 is too close to 17.5. Instead of changing Mod, leave it and make a new middle class. Dump 13.5 for maybe 8.5 or even 6.5 Blinky.
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Old 08-19-2016, 04:40 PM   #178
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Just curious, all those that think a slower wind motor will help mod..... Why is 13.5 all but dead? If those stock guys want an easier step up, it's already there.
Because nobody wants to run it

It is funny, I looked at pre-registration for the HC and it's kinda evened out.
In previous years it was mainly 17.5 with 1 or 1 1/2 heats of 13.5 and 1 heat of mod if we were lucky.

17.5 - 32
13.5 - 21
6.5 - 18

We have to do what's necessary to keep people interested in the hobby. We are group of guys who aren't getting any younger and putting something new out there sometimes draws interest and gets people's juices flowing again.

The problem with that is we don't drop classes and end up with 20 choices...lol... I could see things fall into 2 classes for 1/12 and TC.

17.5 for stock and some type of "Mod" class. What will work best, I don't know... lol... But when it's all figured out let me know
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Old 08-19-2016, 06:33 PM   #179
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Kave - I think you can ask all of my sponsors that I complained about it relentlessly. I did not want to run it at all but these were the people paying my way since I could not afford to due to all the doctor bills with both of my parents having cancer and losing my father. I reluctantly raced it at the time it was requested of me due to the stock motor wars. Did I think it was wrong? Yup, 100%. Was I willing to do as they asked being grateful they stopped me from throwing all my racing gear away and quitting RC all together, yes.

After this year's Snowbirds I let all my sponsors know that they could drop me and I'll find another ride or buy my stuff because I would never race in the stock classes again. I wanted to return my focus to modified and run 13.5 at times for the extra track time. I am also finished with WGT and any other class that isn't 13.5 or faster.

You are right though, I had an amazing year winning all those spec races. At that point (I'm sure I'll take more crap for this one) are the stock/highly sponsored racers the best and more valuable to a company in the industry as Syndrome stated? I think that's been answered by myself plus Paul and Donny at the stock wars races.

I also wanted to be there with enough time not being stressed out so I can stop and help ANYONE who comes to me with a question, problem or just to watch my team mates race so I can offer support. Or if I'm running really good, let my team mates (or others) drive my cars so they learn/understand how I drive - Sound familiar Syndrome?? Oh and Syndrome - My Ko radio was a stock one... Nothing special... Always an excuse with you man...
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Old 08-19-2016, 06:34 PM   #180
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I don't think there is a big enough difference between 17.5 and 13.5 in terms of lap times. When I enter 13.5 at a race I am always a little scared of the (quite likely) embarrassment of having a 17.5 guy go faster than me...
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