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Old 08-18-2016, 09:11 AM   #136
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There are some big opinions flying around about how one group of grown men thinks they know how another group of grown men should spend their time, energy, and money.

How does it work? Is there some reflex or masturbatory impulse in some of us to “blame the stock drivers” whenever we try to tackle the challenge of building up modified racing? As if the guys consistently showing up in numbers at club and national events are the problem and not THE REASON THERE IS ORGANIZED 1/12th SCALE RACING TO BE ENJOYED ANYWHERE AT ALL.

Let’s just assume for half a second that they’re NOT afraid, or sandbagging, or greedy for trophies. That’s not what I see. I see more guys gravitating to where the action is and seeking out more and better competition; they’re actually decreasing their chances of winning by signing up for the largest, deepest classes with the most stacked fields. And they’re the ones who are afraid? Give me a break.

Maybe—just maybe—being grown men with jobs, families, and other places to allocate time, money, and energy, they look at the current state of Mod 1/12th and in their GOOD judgment, take a pass.

Let's catch a collective clue. The problem isn't with Stock. The problem is with Mod.
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Old 08-18-2016, 09:39 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by PutAwayWet View Post
There are some big opinions flying around about how one group of grown men thinks they know how another group of grown men should spend their time, energy, and money.

How does it work? Is there some reflex or masturbatory impulse in some of us to “blame the stock drivers” whenever we try to tackle the challenge of building up modified racing? As if the guys consistently showing up in numbers at club and national events are the problem and not THE REASON THERE IS ORGANIZED 1/12th SCALE RACING TO BE ENJOYED ANYWHERE AT ALL.

Let’s just assume for half a second that they’re NOT afraid, or sandbagging, or greedy for trophies. That’s not what I see. I see more guys gravitating to where the action is and seeking out more and better competition; they’re actually decreasing their chances of winning by signing up for the largest, deepest classes with the most stacked fields. And they’re the ones who are afraid? Give me a break.

Maybe—just maybe—being grown men with jobs, families, and other places to allocate time, money, and energy, they look at the current state of Mod 1/12th and in their GOOD judgment, take a pass.

Let's catch a collective clue. The problem isn't with Stock. The problem is with Mod.
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:18 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by PutAwayWet View Post
There are some big opinions flying around about how one group of grown men thinks they know how another group of grown men should spend their time, energy, and money.

How does it work? Is there some reflex or masturbatory impulse in some of us to “blame the stock drivers” whenever we try to tackle the challenge of building up modified racing? As if the guys consistently showing up in numbers at club and national events are the problem and not THE REASON THERE IS ORGANIZED 1/12th SCALE RACING TO BE ENJOYED ANYWHERE AT ALL.

Let’s just assume for half a second that they’re NOT afraid, or sandbagging, or greedy for trophies. That’s not what I see. I see more guys gravitating to where the action is and seeking out more and better competition; they’re actually decreasing their chances of winning by signing up for the largest, deepest classes with the most stacked fields. And they’re the ones who are afraid? Give me a break.

Maybe—just maybe—being grown men with jobs, families, and other places to allocate time, money, and energy, they look at the current state of Mod 1/12th and in their GOOD judgment, take a pass.

Let's catch a collective clue. The problem isn't with Stock. The problem is with Mod.
I only partially agree, I have no problem with Fast guys running Stock, When I ran Stock I preferred to get my ass handed to me, it made me try harder and get faster. That said there are some guys that MAYBE should not run stock, and for the most part they don't want too. That list is very small, but full factory ride, and custom wind motor, as many batteries as you need, and endless tires is pretty hard to compete with, and again there are only a few who fall into that category, some I know fairly well and know it is their Sponsors who push them in stock for whatever reason.

The other problem, is the other side of the spectrum and that's thinking Stock needs to be a beginner class. It also goes with Mod, anyone running reasonably well in Stock.... how long did you spend getting to the point you're at now, 2 weeks? a big club race? or more than likely you paid your dues and got to the B-main after awhile, then starting B-Q a bit while occasionally showing up in the A, now a year or 2 later (maybe longer) you find yourself regularly in the A. Now, how many people are willing to leave the comfort zone and try to spend 2 years getting used to mod. Took me a full season to stop slapping the sweeper wall and pulling wheelies. Another to get comfortable. I've had good days and bad just like the stock guys, only in Mod it's a little more spectacular. Sure I've been 5 laps down, been more at times, also been only 1 lap off one of the fastest pro's in the country at his home track. I put up with a lot of naysayers, stuck it out, because I wanted to and because spec blinky did not appeal to me. Dan Cook started the Throttle Junkies a few years ago, in an effort to entice guys to try it, it worked well from the atmosphere that everyone was a little rough and it was OK, don't be afraid to ask for help and the fast guys need to (and did) assist.

Is Mod too fast, while I'm nowhere near Cyrul or Hebert, or Lia, I also don't run a 3.0 (I stick with a 4.5 or 4.0 track dictating). I think Mod has some elements of it that make it too MUCH, not too fast. To much instant acceleration, to much endless raw power, match with no need to throttle down cause we have too much battery for too little track time. Blinky, as much as I dislike it, could help, certainly less battery capacity, longer runs, maybe a minimum tire size. I'm open to about anything as long as it's not Spec motor cause at that point it is no longer modified/open, it's just a faster superstock class, which no body wants to run either for some reason.
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:24 AM   #139
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Boom goes the dynamite! Thank you, Josh.

Here in Japan, a good chunk of last years stock A-main finalists moved up to modified. Why? Because they believe that it's important to open up the opportunity for other new and up and coming (stock) drivers to make the A-main. This will create a continual feed into the 1/12th scale class.

At my local track there are more modified drivers than stock. Why? Well we've achieved and won several stock A-main classes. Once you've achieved reaching the a-main you consider moving onto bigger challenges... i.e modified.

Modified makes you work work work work work - and ultimately become a better 1/12th driver.
Just curious, what size is your track?
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:27 AM   #140
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Sponsors push their drivers toward the stock classes because that's what sells product in this country. Sponsorship is advertising, and you need to target your audience. It's the same reason why Metamucil commercials are run during 60 Minutes instead of Saturday morning cartoons.

Look at the recent surge of popularity for Awesomatix with the A800. I don't think they've won a significant mod race with that car ever, but they've won several high profile stock races. And practically overnight, the weird car from Russia with no shocks is as common in the pits as Xray.

Stock wins matter. Arguably more than mod wins in this country.
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:45 AM   #141
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Brian - What's your address? I need to send you a case of your favorite frosty beverage!!
You think all I make around here is thrust kits? You should see the "other" side jobs. But thanks! Cheers.

6.5 blinky is a worthy step. I hope the race is well attended and supported! I really do. My concern is plainly obvious on my shop bench. I have 25 spec motors to my 3 mods. I felt a little Randy and just purchased a new mod motor. My other mod motors fell off the Ifmar list. That being said, I am also purchasing 6 new spec motors to be raced in only 2 cars.

Peeling a cell out of our current packs would be pretty easy reducing them to 3800-4000mah capacity. A 17.5 car uses about 2500mah. A 13.5 car about 3100mah. A mod car can chew up about 7000-7500 on current packs. My only instant concern is the electronic's browning out.

I'd be more interested in dropping a cell then picking up another pile of spec motors.

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Old 08-18-2016, 11:12 AM   #142
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In the 30+ years I've been involved in the hobby (both on the retail side and racing) I've always enjoyed the fact that 1/8th fuel on-road and 1/12th scale modified were considered the premier disciplines of on-road. 1/8th scale has killed itself and continues to do so with the cost of entry. To save 1/12th scale modified of the same fate minimize the changes. Perhaps a limit on battery capacity, but that's it. However, to enhance the race experience for 1/12th scale, extend the race duration for 1/12th scale mains to 15-minutes and shorten qualifying times.

Extending the "mains" will bring back the concept of a race strategy and promote a controlled driving etiquette. The fact that the last 2-minutes of a 15-minute race will decide the outcome of the race brings back the excitement in 1/12th scale. Imagine, tire conservation, battery management, courtesy driving, motor management = great racing... Anything else and you may as well stick to TC. LOL!
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Old 08-18-2016, 12:03 PM   #143
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In the 30+ years I've been involved in the hobby (both on the retail side and racing) I've always enjoyed the fact that 1/8th fuel on-road and 1/12th scale modified were considered the premier disciplines of on-road. 1/8th scale has killed itself and continues to do so with the cost of entry. To save 1/12th scale modified of the same fate minimize the changes. Perhaps a limit on battery capacity, but that's it. However, to enhance the race experience for 1/12th scale, extend the race duration for 1/12th scale mains to 15-minutes and shorten qualifying times.

Extending the "mains" will bring back the concept of a race strategy and promote a controlled driving etiquette. The fact that the last 2-minutes of a 15-minute race will decide the outcome of the race brings back the excitement in 1/12th scale. Imagine, tire conservation, battery management, courtesy driving, motor management = great racing... Anything else and you may as well stick to TC. LOL!
THANK YOU!!!

What's the one thing fuel on road racers want? Longer mains!!!
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Old 08-18-2016, 12:17 PM   #144
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I would vote against longer mains. I don't know about other tracks but the one I've been racing at it was hard enough for me to get tires to last 8 minutes, 15 would be nearly impossible...

There is more to long races than battery life.

EDIT: Nobody seems to have mentioned that todays LiPo batteries tend to catch fire when they go fully dead.
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Old 08-18-2016, 12:45 PM   #145
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Reducing the battery capacity sounds, on the face of it, like a simple suggestion that may well have some merit to it. But I've always understood that lipos don't react well to being drawn down too far. Have I understood wrong? Are not the batterys going to be at risk if their capacity is reduced and used as the method for capping mod speeds? Racers being how we are, we surely will be pushing the downsized batterys to their outer limits if they are the factor that is capping our available power. It won't be good if the lipos become disposable as a result of racers drawing them down too far and until they "complain" by loosing their capacity, swelling up, or worse.
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Old 08-18-2016, 12:47 PM   #146
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I would vote against longer mains. I don't know about other tracks but the one I've been racing at it was hard enough for me to get tires to last 8 minutes, 15 would be nearly impossible...

There is more to long races than battery life.
That is exactly why it would help, start managing tires means you won't be utilizing all the horsepower, bring strategy back into it. I usually cut my rears to 1.58 for mod on the black carpet, can go bigger but corner speed will suffer and driving will be back into the mix. Hell, Nitro mains require a tire strategy due to the wear and have a limited fuel tank. Nobody complains they're to fast
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Old 08-18-2016, 12:51 PM   #147
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Reducing the battery capacity sounds, on the face of it, like a simple suggestion that may well have some merit to it. But I've always understood that lipos don't react well to being drawn down too far. Have I understood wrong? Are not the batterys going to be at risk if their capacity is reduced and used as the method for capping mod speeds? Racers being how we are, we surely will be pushing the downsized batterys to their outer limits if they are the factor that is capping our available power. It won't be good if the lipos become disposable as a result of racers drawing them down too far and until they "complain" by loosing their capacity, swelling up, or worse.
Totally agree, the last thing tracks need is a lipo fire each weekend. Sure most if not all esc's have a voltage cutoff but how do you expext this to be teched at the club race level. Besides as we have seen before any electronic device that one man makes can be reprogrammed by another.
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:05 PM   #148
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Totally agree, the last thing tracks need is a lipo fire each weekend. Sure most if not all esc's have a voltage cutoff but how do you expext this to be teched at the club race level. Besides as we have seen before any electronic device that one man makes can be reprogrammed by another.
Update the software in all ESCs so that when they are in blinky mode the Lipo cutoff is on with no option to shut it off.
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:05 PM   #149
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Totally agree, the last thing tracks need is a lipo fire each weekend. Sure most if not all esc's have a voltage cutoff but how do you expext this to be teched at the club race level. Besides as we have seen before any electronic device that one man makes can be reprogrammed by another.
Again another perfect example of why Mod is awesome. When was the last time anyone talked about a mod guy cheating, or reprogramming the ESC, or running an illegal rotor. Any change in the rules needs to be in a manner that respects this aspect of Mod.
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:16 PM   #150
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Do we really need a v cut ?

I can't be the only one here to have run a mod car down far enough to notice it's time to stop
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