R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Like Tree5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-21-2016, 04:26 AM   #46
Tech Addict
 
scirocco14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 532
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

The USVTA F1 rules are 21.5 motors, BTW.
__________________
Mark C. USVTA #115 TC4 & Xray T4 '13, USGT #115 Xray T4 '13
USVTA-F1 #115 F103/4 & F1R3 & WTF1 FC-16. Tamiya M05 M06
Bush River RC, The RUG at King, Ho B Max Raceway, Easley RC
scirocco14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2016, 05:11 AM   #47
Tech Addict
 
KE4PJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Columbia,Tn.
Posts: 638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scirocco14 View Post
The USVTA F1 rules are 21.5 motors, BTW.
Where is that rule? I don't see any F1 rules.
__________________
"If at first you don't succeed, sky diving is not for you" Unknown
"A bad day racing is still better than a good day at work" Me
KE4PJO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2016, 05:51 AM   #48
Tech Champion
 
DARKSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville-Memphis
Posts: 8,515
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

I think Ive made a boo boo...maybe Rob K or Kevin can chime in....I dont see the rules on the USVTA site...but found this...if this is what the USVTA is still using then so will we

New this year for the USVTA Points Championship will be an F1 class. We will be following the basic "UF1" rules which have been most common in the USA. Note: rules may change as we work our way through this first season.

Formula 1 – 2014

Motor: ROAR-Legal 21.5 stock motor with ROAR approved rotors only (25.5 optional).
ESC: ROAR-Legal ESC set on non-boost.
Tires: Rubber only, F1 scale. Must be available to the general public.
Body: F1 scale, molded front/rear wing .
Drive: 2-wheel rear drive cars only
Width: 190mm max
Wheelbase: 270mm max Battery: 2S LiPo or 6-Cell NiMh, long or short packs
Battery Max Voltage: 8.40v
Minimum Weight: 1050g
Minimum Ride Height: 3mm
Suspension: All suspensions allowed, including IFS suspensions
Driving Aids: None allowed

Brushless Motor Rules
ROAR motor rules are used for this racing program- all participants must use ROAR legal and approved 21.5 brushless motors. For a list of legal 21.5 motors visit: http://www.roarracing.org (25.5 optional - see end note)

Tuning Rotors
Tuning rotors are legal in racing, but the rotors must be ROAR legal Stock/Spec tuning rotors approved for the motor for which it was designed. The rotor can’t exceed the maximum length, diameter and magnet thickness designated for Stock/Spec racing under ROAR rules. Tuning rotors may not exceed 12.5mm in diameter. The length of the magnet may not exceed 25mm. Some or most motor manufactures offer tuning rotors that have shorter magnets than 25mm and have smaller diameter magnets closer to 12.3mm. These types of smaller rotors are legal. They are often used to de-tune the motor for certain conditions and grip levels. Most motors come with the maximum diameter rotor and length magnet alrea

Tracks using the 25.5 option will follow USVTA rules - no tuning rotors, Novak motor only

Tires/Wheels
Formula One R/C racing features multiple tire suppliers. Any commercially available (in the US), F1-specific tire may be used. A track may specify a spec tire and/or wheel at their discretion. Any custom/hand-made tires are not allowed. Wheels must be F1 specific, spoked wheels. No additional aerodynamic dish inserts may be used other than the ones supplied with the body kit. Any tire inserts can be used.

Bodies
Any post-2000 (year) Lexan Formula 1 body to be used for racing as long as it is mass-produced and readily available to buy at any retailer. All panels must be painted, which includes side pods (if added separately). Barge boards and airboxes must also be attached and painted. Hard plastic parts like mirrors, side pylons or nose-mounted cameras are encouraged but not mandatory.

Front Wing
Any mass-produced front wing may also be used. It must be the original hard plastic front Tamiya-type wing; no polycarbonate/Lexan wings allowed.

Rear Wing
Any Tamiya-style, hard plastic rear wing may be used. While the center plates and mounting section must remain stock, the side dams can be replaced with Lexan or carbon fiber. The shape can be customized but must retain the original leading and trailing design (leading edge must not extend past the leading edge of the center plate; trailing edge must not extend more than 22mm past the trailing edge of the center plates). The rear wing cannot be higher than the top of the air box. Diffusers are allowed but cannot be higher than the rear axle or protrude past the side dams of the rear wings’ trailing edge.

Body must be completely intact as it was intended by the manufacturer. It cannot be ‘extra’ trimmed along the bottom or cut in a way to be lowered on the chassis. The air intakes may be cut out (in the airbox and side pods) but not bigger than the original scribe marks in the body. A driver’s helmet must be used.

Battery Voltage
Due to safety reasons, all LiPo batteries cannot exceed a max peak voltage of 8.40v. Spot checks will be done if there is any indication that someone is blasting their batteries. Charging bags are recommended but not mandatory.

Suspension Systems
Front and rear independent suspension systems are allowed as long as the car meets the rest of the rules. All front suspension mount points must be located entirely within the body shell (no pan-car front suspension systems). Adjustable link front ends are OK as long as the inner mount point is located within the body. Custom ‘flared’ bodies are not legal.

Driving Aids
No electronic driving aids (gyros, wheel speed sensors, etc.). Transmitter functions are allowed.
Anything not explicitly described in the rules, may be deemed illegal.

**A track may specify the USVTA 25.5 Novak motor instead of the ROAR 21.5 motor due to track size or driveability issues. Points will still be counted as long as all participants use the same motor at the same track.
Attached Thumbnails
2016 U.S.VTA Southern Nationals in Music City U.S.A.-10003764_10152496208053814_1818148423_o.jpg  
__________________
Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Team Associated/Reedy Powered/PROTOform
2017 U.S.VTA+ Southern Nationals in Music City U.S.A.
Sept 21-24th @ Thunder RC Raceway
1172 Park Ave, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2016, 06:32 AM   #49
Tech Addict
 
scirocco14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 532
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Yep, those are the USVTA F1 rules for 2015-2016!

Hopefully they will be added to the USVTA site going forward so that they are more accessible to everyone.

I'm OK with a 25.5 motor if the Novak 25.5 is specified, to make the playing field level.

Mark
__________________
Mark C. USVTA #115 TC4 & Xray T4 '13, USGT #115 Xray T4 '13
USVTA-F1 #115 F103/4 & F1R3 & WTF1 FC-16. Tamiya M05 M06
Bush River RC, The RUG at King, Ho B Max Raceway, Easley RC
scirocco14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2016, 06:36 AM   #50
Tech Champion
 
DARKSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville-Memphis
Posts: 8,515
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Ill have more info on this later today
__________________
Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Team Associated/Reedy Powered/PROTOform
2017 U.S.VTA+ Southern Nationals in Music City U.S.A.
Sept 21-24th @ Thunder RC Raceway
1172 Park Ave, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2016, 06:58 AM   #51
Tech Champion
 
Kevin K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
Posts: 8,828
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Kevin K Send a message via Yahoo to Kevin K
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post

**A track may specify the USVTA 25.5 Novak motor instead of the ROAR 21.5 motor due to track size or driveability issues. Points will still be counted as long as all participants use the same motor at the same track.[/B]
It really comes down to this last line here....If you want to run 21.5 motors at your race that is up to you and the powers that be. If you want to run 25.5 motors again that is your choice. I think the part about NOVAK 25.5 was before the ROAR rules and motors were approved for 25.5...so I think now it would be open to any ROAR legal 25.5 motor. Also everyone should be on the same turn of motor...either 21.5 or 25.5 not a mix of both. It seems most carpet tracks are running 25.5 and the quality of racing has gone up along with car counts too!

FWIW...Rob is working out some more "current" F1 rules and they should clear this part up but I believe what I said is true. When time allows Im sure they will be up on the USVTA site.
__________________
2013 USVTA World Champion of the World
MOTIV RC presents the Midwest All-Star Carpet Series....15th year running 2017/18!!!
USVTA National Championship....check it out!!!
Im only responsible for what I say NOT what you understand.
Kevin K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2016, 07:46 AM   #52
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spring Hill Tn
Posts: 795
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
It really comes down to this last line here....If you want to run 21.5 motors at your race that is up to you and the powers that be. If you want to run 25.5 motors again that is your choice. I think the part about NOVAK 25.5 was before the ROAR rules and motors were approved for 25.5...so I think now it would be open to any ROAR legal 25.5 motor. Also everyone should be on the same turn of motor...either 21.5 or 25.5 not a mix of both. It seems most carpet tracks are running 25.5 and the quality of racing has gone up along with car counts too!

FWIW...Rob is working out some more "current" F1 rules and they should clear this part up but I believe what I said is true. When time allows Im sure they will be up on the USVTA site.
Thank you Kevin!!!!!!!!

After this race last year there was a big uproar among F1 all over about this issue of 21.5 is too fast......... So I invested in 25.5's for the "Birds" as well as ROAR races around the area and now we have folks saying I'm not coming if I have to run 25.5. Jeeeeze Make up your flipping minds folks.

Im not investing a bunch of money in NOVAK only 25.5. if i have to I WILL NOT COME..... There! said my piece. LOL What kinds of worms will this open up again.
freebird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2016, 08:18 AM   #53
Tech Champion
 
DARKSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville-Memphis
Posts: 8,515
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

everyone chill out...this isn't an issue.....its not official in anyway at this point...Im looking for the best option and per the USVTA either is acceptable....Ill check with others that I know run the class on a regular, and on a similar size track as Thunder.

If its 21.5 or 25.5 it will be a very good field of F1 and some good racing all weekend long.
__________________
Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Team Associated/Reedy Powered/PROTOform
2017 U.S.VTA+ Southern Nationals in Music City U.S.A.
Sept 21-24th @ Thunder RC Raceway
1172 Park Ave, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2016, 08:21 AM   #54
Tech Champion
 
DARKSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville-Memphis
Posts: 8,515
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Carl you don't have to run Novak 25.5's...that is for VTA...if we go with 25.5...it will be 25.5 ROAR approved motors...so relax and cya Sunday if you coming
__________________
Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Team Associated/Reedy Powered/PROTOform
2017 U.S.VTA+ Southern Nationals in Music City U.S.A.
Sept 21-24th @ Thunder RC Raceway
1172 Park Ave, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2016, 08:24 AM   #55
Tech Addict
 
scirocco14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 532
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird View Post
Thank you Kevin!!!!!!!!

After this race last year there was a big uproar among F1 all over about this issue of 21.5 is too fast......... So I invested in 25.5's for the "Birds" as well as ROAR races around the area and now we have folks saying I'm not coming if I have to run 25.5. Jeeeeze Make up your flipping minds folks.

Im not investing a bunch of money in NOVAK only 25.5. if i have to I WILL NOT COME..... There! said my piece. LOL What kinds of worms will this open up again.
Who said they weren't coming if they have to run 25.5?
__________________
Mark C. USVTA #115 TC4 & Xray T4 '13, USGT #115 Xray T4 '13
USVTA-F1 #115 F103/4 & F1R3 & WTF1 FC-16. Tamiya M05 M06
Bush River RC, The RUG at King, Ho B Max Raceway, Easley RC
scirocco14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 08:22 AM   #56
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 413
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default 25.5

25.5 is the way to go. At our track lap times were very similar and fields are closer!
alphacat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 01:05 PM   #57
Tech Master
 
Csaari77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 1,494
Trader Rating: 34 (100%+)
Default

The only issue I see with using 25.5 motors is the ROAR requirement. The ROAR list only has 2 approved motors. Have any others been approved? Are approvals in process for other motors?
Csaari77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2016, 04:41 AM   #58
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 456
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

After speaking with Rob about the rules, which are not perfected yet for the inaugural year, we decided on also running 25.5 for our summer race. The key components to being allowed for F1 is the 12.3 rotor and a non short-stacked stator. The specs are essentially mirrored off the Novak motor specs.


Quote:
ROAR Spec 25.5 motor: Only three slot "Y" wound stators are permitted. No delta wound or slot less stators are allowed. Only circular (round) pure copper magnet wire permitted. The three slotted stator must be wound with 25.5 turns of two strands of wire with a maximum diameter of .643mm per slot. The minimum resistance between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter, will be no less than 101 milliohms. The stator stack length must be a minimum of 19.7mm and a maximum of 21.0mm. Only 12.3 mm diameter rotors will be permitted in 25.5 Spec motors and the diameter must measure 12.30 +/-.05 mm. The rotor magnet length must be between a minimum of 25.0mm and a maximum of 26.0mm, not including any balancing material."
nwagner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2016, 04:47 AM   #59
Tech Champion
 
DARKSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville-Memphis
Posts: 8,515
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwagner View Post
After speaking with Rob about the rules, which are not perfected yet for the inaugural year, we decided on also running 25.5 for our summer race. The key components to being allowed for F1 is the 12.3 rotor and a non short-stacked stator. The specs are essentially mirrored off the Novak motor specs.
ditto....

if some of the Summit (Ft Wayne) guys that ran F1 at the Indoor Nationals chime in..

thanks
__________________
Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Team Associated/Reedy Powered/PROTOform
2017 U.S.VTA+ Southern Nationals in Music City U.S.A.
Sept 21-24th @ Thunder RC Raceway
1172 Park Ave, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2016, 04:48 AM   #60
Tech Champion
 
DARKSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville-Memphis
Posts: 8,515
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

also what motors are guys running?...whats popular other than the Novak?
__________________
Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Team Associated/Reedy Powered/PROTOform
2017 U.S.VTA+ Southern Nationals in Music City U.S.A.
Sept 21-24th @ Thunder RC Raceway
1172 Park Ave, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:52 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net