Electric Motor 101
11-07-2002, 08:49 PM
#1
Electric Motor 101
OK, as some of you know, I am new to r/c. I know the basics...but that is about it. I learned some new stuff about batterys though! My next lesson is with motors. I took my car to the track today...and everyone was running the same car as me...TC3. But, there was a slight difference....I have the stock motor that came with my car...and everyone else had a different motor.
Now, I understand that there are two different kind of motors. Stock and Modified. Exactly what is the different.
I also understand that they are rated my turns. Can someone explain that. Also, they are rated by double and triple. What does that mean as well.
I was to upgrade my motor. Not so fast that I can't handle the car...but something that is faster than stock. I have the LRP Runner Plus digital reverse ESC. It says it can handle from 17-36 turn motor. I have a 19 turn motor...so I can only go to a 17 turn motor. I understand gearing has a lot to do with speed and acceleration, but I just wanna know about the motors for now. Gearing will be the next 101 course.
Thanks in advance for those of you who take the time to explain these things to me. I really appreciate it!
Now, I understand that there are two different kind of motors. Stock and Modified. Exactly what is the different.
I also understand that they are rated my turns. Can someone explain that. Also, they are rated by double and triple. What does that mean as well.
I was to upgrade my motor. Not so fast that I can't handle the car...but something that is faster than stock. I have the LRP Runner Plus digital reverse ESC. It says it can handle from 17-36 turn motor. I have a 19 turn motor...so I can only go to a 17 turn motor. I understand gearing has a lot to do with speed and acceleration, but I just wanna know about the motors for now. Gearing will be the next 101 course.
Thanks in advance for those of you who take the time to explain these things to me. I really appreciate it!
11-07-2002, 10:24 PM
#2
Tech Elite
Dear Unknown
Stock means 27 turn, 5 deg, motor. That's it!
Modified is everything with less turns except for 19 turn is sometimes called the "Spec" class.
A 27 turn, Rebuildable stock motor should be faster than the 19 turn that came with your car.
Try buying pinions 1 & 2 teeth larger than what came with the car to get more top speed. As long as the motor doesn't get too hot.
Modified is everything with less turns except for 19 turn is sometimes called the "Spec" class.
A 27 turn, Rebuildable stock motor should be faster than the 19 turn that came with your car.
Try buying pinions 1 & 2 teeth larger than what came with the car to get more top speed. As long as the motor doesn't get too hot.
Last edited by popsracer; 11-07-2002 at 10:33 PM.
11-08-2002, 12:06 AM
#3
Tech Master
Popsracer, the ROAR legal stock motor is 27 turn 24 degree.
Unknown, the lower the turn, the more amps the motor will pull. The higher the wind, the longer it takes to spool up. Stock motors(27T) use a "laydown" brush while mods(23T, 19T and below) use standard or "stand-up" brushes unless it's a P-94 motor then it uses a square type brush.
Unknown, the lower the turn, the more amps the motor will pull. The higher the wind, the longer it takes to spool up. Stock motors(27T) use a "laydown" brush while mods(23T, 19T and below) use standard or "stand-up" brushes unless it's a P-94 motor then it uses a square type brush.
11-08-2002, 04:36 AM
#4
I thought the lower the turns...the faster the motor. But, its the other way around? Like, a 9 turn motor would be slower than a 20 turn motor?
11-08-2002, 04:38 AM
#5
also...that does the degree mean?
And, is this a stock motor? Because I was thinking about getting this one. Will it make my car faster than it already is with the 19 turn that came with it?
And, is this a stock motor? Because I was thinking about getting this one. Will it make my car faster than it already is with the 19 turn that came with it?
11-08-2002, 05:29 AM
#6
unknown: The lower the turns of the motor the faster the straight line speed will be... in general.
Between the stock motor and the modified motor though, the key difference will be the stock motor uses bushings to support the armature (rotating thing) and modifieds use ball bearings.
If you are not racing the 19t spec class you guys run over there, or the 27T stock class, I would suggest you swap over to a motor higher than 17T (since that's your ESC's limit) equipped with ball bearings.
Reason being, on 3k cells I can get more than 8 minutes of run time on my 13x2 Tamiya Dyna Run Super Touring. I used to run an MVP, and while it can match or even in some cases exceed 23T JMRCA style motors, I find they are not suitable for fun runs around the track - the bearings add drag - cuts your run time - and the comm wear with the 24degree built in timing seems to heat the motor up fast and cause the comm to wear out pretty fast too. IMO not for bashing around.
I believe the rest of your questions popsracer and proudracer have answered. If you intend to pick a stock motor, the gear ratio you run is extremely critical IMO. I had to gear my fantom MVP as low as my 13x2 (7 - 7.3:1) to actually get proper pickup and good top end. Whereas for the JMRCA style 23Ts we can go pretty high (6 - 6.4:1) and still come back with acceptable heat levels after 8 or more minutes of runtime.
Hope this helps.
~Alvin
Between the stock motor and the modified motor though, the key difference will be the stock motor uses bushings to support the armature (rotating thing) and modifieds use ball bearings.
If you are not racing the 19t spec class you guys run over there, or the 27T stock class, I would suggest you swap over to a motor higher than 17T (since that's your ESC's limit) equipped with ball bearings.
Reason being, on 3k cells I can get more than 8 minutes of run time on my 13x2 Tamiya Dyna Run Super Touring. I used to run an MVP, and while it can match or even in some cases exceed 23T JMRCA style motors, I find they are not suitable for fun runs around the track - the bearings add drag - cuts your run time - and the comm wear with the 24degree built in timing seems to heat the motor up fast and cause the comm to wear out pretty fast too. IMO not for bashing around.
I believe the rest of your questions popsracer and proudracer have answered. If you intend to pick a stock motor, the gear ratio you run is extremely critical IMO. I had to gear my fantom MVP as low as my 13x2 (7 - 7.3:1) to actually get proper pickup and good top end. Whereas for the JMRCA style 23Ts we can go pretty high (6 - 6.4:1) and still come back with acceptable heat levels after 8 or more minutes of runtime.
Hope this helps.
~Alvin
11-08-2002, 05:33 AM
#7
Oh BTW, if you can pick up a used modified can, sticking in a 27T stocker arm like the MVP really rocks! You can adjust the timing of the motor (lovely!) and the ball bearings on the modified can help alot! For bashing with my 12th scale I use either a Tamiya Acto Power Formula F1 or a modified can with a 23T JMRCA rotor stuck into it. Touring car wise I have a 10x2, 13x2 dyna run or 23x2 - all are modified, and usually able to give me more than 8 mins of run time. The 23x2 can get boring as I can get in excess of a quarter hour of track time 
11-08-2002, 07:51 AM
#8
You said swap over to a motor higher than a 17turn. I have a 19 turn right now. So, you want me to go higher than this? I am really confused still on exactly what the turns mean and what the stock and modified means. You guys explained everything I asked...I just don't understand. The terms that you guys use are too much for me. I have a hard time with the battery part of the car....now the motor's....WOW, they are a whole different story. I guess I'll just ask around at the track and see if someone can explain to me. They will probably tell me the exact same thing that you guys did. Thanks for explaining...its me that can't comprehend.
11-08-2002, 08:10 AM
#9
OK, I read over some of the stuff and looked at this one website. Tell me if I'm understanding this. At the track I run at, they have races every Friday night. They have the stock class and the modified class.
Everyone in the stock class has either a 27 turn motor or a 19 turn motor? Right? The only two motors that are stock are the 19 and the 27 turn? That is how I understand it.
Now, for the modified class...I am assuming is everything else other than the 19 and the 27 turn motors.
The number of turns is the number of times that the wire is wrapped around armature. The lower the turns, the faster the motor.
The number of winds (double, triple) is the number of strands in the wire that is wrapped around the armature. Low wind give you more low end speed. High wind gives you more top end speed.
Hopefully I am understanding this correctly. Now, to the stock motors. Are there any stock motors that are double or triple wind? And, right now I have a 19 turn motor in my car. If I get a 27 turn motor, won't my car be slower with a 27 turn motor compared to a 19 turn motor? The lower the turn...the faster the motor is.
Again, I am just a beginner. And I am not even sure if I got everything right up there.
Everyone in the stock class has either a 27 turn motor or a 19 turn motor? Right? The only two motors that are stock are the 19 and the 27 turn? That is how I understand it.
Now, for the modified class...I am assuming is everything else other than the 19 and the 27 turn motors.
The number of turns is the number of times that the wire is wrapped around armature. The lower the turns, the faster the motor.
The number of winds (double, triple) is the number of strands in the wire that is wrapped around the armature. Low wind give you more low end speed. High wind gives you more top end speed.
Hopefully I am understanding this correctly. Now, to the stock motors. Are there any stock motors that are double or triple wind? And, right now I have a 19 turn motor in my car. If I get a 27 turn motor, won't my car be slower with a 27 turn motor compared to a 19 turn motor? The lower the turn...the faster the motor is.
Again, I am just a beginner. And I am not even sure if I got everything right up there.
11-08-2002, 08:21 AM
#10
Tech Elite
My mistake.
OOPS.....
My mistake. For some reason I thought it was only 5 degs. Do they even make a 5 deg. "Stock" motor.
I also have a 27 T, 36 deg. Motor that we won in a raffle drawing. It has stand up brushes, a pink can and a much shorter stack of laminations on the armature. Runs pretty good in my sons Tamiya.
My mistake. For some reason I thought it was only 5 degs. Do they even make a 5 deg. "Stock" motor.
I also have a 27 T, 36 deg. Motor that we won in a raffle drawing. It has stand up brushes, a pink can and a much shorter stack of laminations on the armature. Runs pretty good in my sons Tamiya.
11-08-2002, 08:31 AM
#11
Tech Elite
What turn motor to run
"Stock" class is ONLY for 27 turn, 24 deg. (right) motors.
The 19 turn class is a different class. Sometimes called the "Spec" class. (the TC3 kit motor does not apply)
Anything else with a lower # of turns is considered a "Modified" and must run in the "Modified" class.
Keep the kit 19 turn for a few races and experiment with the gearing. Most of the other racers won't complain unless your kicking their butts.
Buy a 27 T Rebuildable Stock motor to replace it after a few more races.
The competion in the "stock" class can be really intense sometimes.
The 19 turn class is a different class. Sometimes called the "Spec" class. (the TC3 kit motor does not apply)
Anything else with a lower # of turns is considered a "Modified" and must run in the "Modified" class.
Keep the kit 19 turn for a few races and experiment with the gearing. Most of the other racers won't complain unless your kicking their butts.
Buy a 27 T Rebuildable Stock motor to replace it after a few more races.
The competion in the "stock" class can be really intense sometimes.
11-08-2002, 08:36 AM
#12
Tech Elite
Do the ball bearings really help?
Does anyone think that ball bearings would really help a
27T motor?
If you keep your bushings properly lubed there SHOULDN'T be that much difference.
Can you put bearings in a bushed Can & Endbell? (speed secret?)
27T motor?
If you keep your bushings properly lubed there SHOULDN'T be that much difference.
Can you put bearings in a bushed Can & Endbell? (speed secret?)
11-08-2002, 09:17 AM
#13
Yeah, I need a new motor anyways. The one that it came with...well...the motor can is seperating from the endbell. Don't ask me how that happened. I only ran it 4 times too. Anywho. I am going to be getting a 27T...but what does rebuildable mean. I know you can rebuild it...but with what? Better parts? Also...what do I need to maintain my motor? Lube, cleaner?
11-08-2002, 09:33 AM
#14
unknown and popsracer
First off, there is a big difference in racing vs bashing. If you plan to race the car with a club in your area, you need to investigate the rules for the various classes that they run and make sure you follow those rules. Any track that is running "stock sedan," will require a ROAR legal 27T, 24 degree, fixed endbell motor that has a Mabuchi style, machine wound armature and bushings. I'm sure that's not helping you figure out the motorspeak language, unknown, but that's essentially what defines a "stock" motor. Your analysis of turns vs. winds is correct. There are a couple other important data points that haven't been mentioned that you should consider as well. Modified motors destry themselves much more quickly than stock motors. The high current that they pull causes a lot of arcing on the comm which requires much more frequent maintenance. Maintenance is tearing the motor down, cleaning out all the metal filings, clean the brush hoods, etc. and truing or cutting the comm. When you cut the comm, you are removing material from the comm to make it perfectly round and free of oxidization caused by electric current going through the metal. You must do the same maintenance on a stock motor, but far less frequently. I typically cut my stock motor comms every 2 or 3 race days. I need to cut my mod comms every race day as a minimum. Sometimes more than that. If you don't do this, performance goes down really fast. This is true whether you are racing or bashing.
unknown
If you are just starting out, I would suggest that you stick with a stock motor. It will teach you how to be fast a lot more than mod will. Plus, you won't have to concern yourself with maintenance as much, or your batteries dumping. I like the P2K2 motor. I run one in my XXX-S. I feel that it's a great motor for sedan. You should start by gearing it around 6.5:1 and adjust it to match the track layout. There's plenty more for you to learn about being fast, but that should get you started. One of the fist things I would do is make sure you can adjust the droop on your car. The RTR TC3's that I have seen don't have this capability, so you may need to get a new chassis tub and/or lower arms all around with the grub screws that do the adjustment. Your lhs should be able to help you with that if you don't know what I'm talking about. Good luck!
First off, there is a big difference in racing vs bashing. If you plan to race the car with a club in your area, you need to investigate the rules for the various classes that they run and make sure you follow those rules. Any track that is running "stock sedan," will require a ROAR legal 27T, 24 degree, fixed endbell motor that has a Mabuchi style, machine wound armature and bushings. I'm sure that's not helping you figure out the motorspeak language, unknown, but that's essentially what defines a "stock" motor. Your analysis of turns vs. winds is correct. There are a couple other important data points that haven't been mentioned that you should consider as well. Modified motors destry themselves much more quickly than stock motors. The high current that they pull causes a lot of arcing on the comm which requires much more frequent maintenance. Maintenance is tearing the motor down, cleaning out all the metal filings, clean the brush hoods, etc. and truing or cutting the comm. When you cut the comm, you are removing material from the comm to make it perfectly round and free of oxidization caused by electric current going through the metal. You must do the same maintenance on a stock motor, but far less frequently. I typically cut my stock motor comms every 2 or 3 race days. I need to cut my mod comms every race day as a minimum. Sometimes more than that. If you don't do this, performance goes down really fast. This is true whether you are racing or bashing.
unknown
If you are just starting out, I would suggest that you stick with a stock motor. It will teach you how to be fast a lot more than mod will. Plus, you won't have to concern yourself with maintenance as much, or your batteries dumping. I like the P2K2 motor. I run one in my XXX-S. I feel that it's a great motor for sedan. You should start by gearing it around 6.5:1 and adjust it to match the track layout. There's plenty more for you to learn about being fast, but that should get you started. One of the fist things I would do is make sure you can adjust the droop on your car. The RTR TC3's that I have seen don't have this capability, so you may need to get a new chassis tub and/or lower arms all around with the grub screws that do the adjustment. Your lhs should be able to help you with that if you don't know what I'm talking about. Good luck!
11-08-2002, 09:36 AM
#15
BTW, rebuilable just means that you can take it apart by removing the two endbell screws. Older motors were sealed. You should be able to fix your motor by taking it apart and seeing what's causing the endbell to pop out. You may have to flatten that ring/plate thing that the screws go into. Sounds like you've been running into things! 
It's all good. Just messing with ya!
It's all good. Just messing with ya!