1/12th 2 Cell Racing
12th stock racing in Japan is unique. Some race are 1 cell others are 2 cell, like as US rule.
In those, I felt 2 cell racing is low cost because 2 cell battery is very low price in Japanese market. Street Price Yokomo 1600mA 10$/pack, 85g Orion 1600mA 16$, 105g Torion 1600mA? 25$, ?g 1cell 13.5 and 2cell 25.5. These two car is just same speed and lap on the 730g rule. 1cell 17.5 and 2cell 30.5 2 cell 30.5(Yokomo motor) are same as current 1 cell 17.5. I think from 33.5 to 35.5 prefer for 2 cell stock racing. 1. 2 cell 12h racing is low cost as well as no required voltage booster. 2. This can allow to share motor and battery with F1 rubber class. 3. Easy battery management on charge because when 2 cell charge, most charger use voltage sensor lead. 1 cell(1S2P) battery can not manage cell balance. 2 cell 21.5, current Japanese role, is over speed. JMRCA national TQ in stock class is the same lap as A final 10th person on open class. I think US 17.5 class grows faster than 27.5 with brush motor. It maybe 21.5 prefer. However, it is 1 cell. 2 cell racing market a wide variety of choice ESC. In addition, almost all of them are cheaper than ESC with booster. How do you think about 2 cell 12th? This car is for no regulated weight race in Tokyo last year. Car is below 600g with Yokomo battery. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dcL_cbtJHM...0/CIMG3356.JPG |
Originally Posted by landau
(Post 14439460)
2. This can allow to share motor and battery with F1 rubber class.
Originally Posted by landau
(Post 14439460)
3. Easy battery management on charge because when 2 cell charge, most charger use voltage sensor lead. 1 cell(1S2P) battery can not manage cell balance.
Originally Posted by landau
(Post 14439460)
How do you think about 2 cell 12th?
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1s batteries are typically 1s2p so its pretty rare to get a perfectly matched pair of cells and one goes puffy before the other ect.
2s packs properly balanced and not abused should last longer but in the case of modern high capacity 2s2p you have the same problem. Doesnt really make things easier but i guess you could share batteries between classes if you had to. But no more classes please. Waaaaay too much dilution. Ahould be a stock and a mod 1:12. 1:12 isnt even a beginner class really. Run f1 for slow noob class then take up tc or 1:12. |
Originally Posted by valk
(Post 14439742)
Run f1 for slow noob class then take up tc or 1:12.
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I can see from the description that you're trying to compare competitive times between 1 and 2S with different motors and attempting to find parity. What you will run into is that even if you can find parity between them, it will be hard for the established class to legitimize both equipment types running together. There will always be a perceived advantage one way or the other. As stated, there are already at least 3 levels of 12th in the US and 12th scale is a hard sell to begin with. I personally don't object and if it works in your corner of the globe, have fun with it.
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Originally Posted by valk
(Post 14439742)
Run f1 for slow noob class then take up tc or 1:12.
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I race 2s 1/12th 21.5 here in Japan, and it's not cheap. That is, to be competitive, you need top quality equipment and you need an aftermarket power capacitor. Like the $50 Cavalier power capacitor by Acuvance.
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What does the capacitor do? Thanks
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2 cell racing has some benefits and 1 cell has detriments.
I cast above 2 cel benefits. Here I state detriments of 1 cell. But I well know not only 1 cell has benefit but also I agree with no more category. 1. miss charge This year JMRCA race separated 1 cell open and 2 cell stock 21.5. Before then allowed to run both class. This is same as local track race. In the case, I watched sometimes Lipo battery explosion because racer charged 1 cell battery by 2 cell setting. This was not once. Recent race have a wide variety of category including 1 cell and 2 cell on a day. But racers may use same charger by cell setting every times. When you attend 2 category Q3F1 race, it requires seven times changes. If it forget once, what happen? Most cases will find out before explosion. But rare case is not. Racer who use same charger or if 2 cell only allowed, will prevent from those mistake. 2. balancing As you know, most 1 cell battery for 12th is 1S2P. Each cell lie on above and below in battery case. Racer use always it same direction because battery terminal is one side. Therefore, each cell dose not equal to get worse by heat problem. Upper cell cooling by air during run, but other cell sandwiched by between upper cell and carbon chassis. This effect gets damage cell. I have dismantled 1 cell battery over 10 packs so far and check each cell balance. Without exception, though not many sample, below cell had damaged. If 1 cell is made of 1 Pack, cell balance is not problem. How do you think again? Thank you for your opinion. |
Originally Posted by ixlr8nz
(Post 14440460)
What does the capacitor do? Thanks
|
landau,
It's great you prefer running 1/12 on 2s. I also prefer it, and enjoy its many advantages, especially the shorter charging time. Sadly here in the US 1s 1/12 scale is here to stay, and has little chance of ever changing. The main arguments you'll hear are, 1s 1/12 racers have already made large investments into 1s equipment, and many only run 1/12 so have no need for anything else. You'll also find that the modern US 1/12 racer prefers an extremely under powered car, as it forces you to buy a new motor & batteries every 6-months to remain competitive, and provides the additional enjoyment of watching a 4-door sedan drive away from you on the straights. If it was up to me 1/12 would be setup into the following 3 classes: Sportsman: 2s, 21.5, Blinky Esc, Spec Tire (Compound TBD), No Sponsored Drivers Allowed Super Stock: 2s, 21.5, Open Esc, OpenTire Modified: 1s or 2s, Open Motor, Open Esc, Open Tire At the club level I'd offer Sportsman & Super Stock, and for BIG races would include Modified. One day 1/12 racers may wake up and ask, "why are we running on 1s when practically EVERY other RC car (on-road & off-road) uses a 2s battery?" But for now, US 1/12 scale racing is 1s and the masses aim to keep it that way. |
Originally Posted by AZ Wolfie
(Post 14440764)
The main arguments you'll hear are, 1s 1/12 racers have already made large investments into 1s equipment, and many only run 1/12 so have no need for anything else.
Originally Posted by AZ Wolfie
(Post 14440764)
You'll also find that the modern US 1/12 racer prefers an extremely under powered car, as it forces you to buy a new motor & batteries every 6-months to remain competitive
Originally Posted by AZ Wolfie
(Post 14440764)
If it was up to me 1/12 would be setup into the following 3 classes:
Sportsman: 2s, 21.5, Blinky Esc, Spec Tire (Compound TBD), No Sponsored Drivers Allowed Super Stock: 2s, 21.5, Open Esc, OpenTire Modified: 1s or 2s, Open Motor, Open Esc, Open Tire Keep in mind that back in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s 12th scale ran 4 cell while everything else ran 6 cell. Running less cells is nothing new.
Originally Posted by AZ Wolfie
(Post 14440764)
One day 1/12 racers may wake up and ask, "why are we running on 1s when practically EVERY other RC car (on-road & off-road) uses a 2s battery?" But for now, US 1/12 scale racing is 1s and the masses aim to keep it that way.
In the end the only valid argument is to standardize battery cell count. All the other perceived advantages of 2S over 1S are subjective and it ends up being a wash. |
Originally Posted by EDWARD2003
(Post 14440522)
Magical unicorns will shoot out of your motor ;)
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Originally Posted by AZ Wolfie
(Post 14440764)
One day 1/12 racers may wake up and ask, "why are we running on 1s when practically EVERY other RC car (on-road & off-road) uses a 2s battery?" But for now, US 1/12 scale racing is 1s and the masses aim to keep it that way.
- 4 cells where slightly faster in the infield, resulting in different lines thru the infield vs 6. - 6 cells were insanely fast, to the point they negated the 4 cell infield advantage. 4 cell car spends 2-4 laps working a clean pass, boom negated next major straightaway - 6 cells were heavier to the point that if a 4 cell and a 6 cell barely touched, the 4 cell car reacted like it was hit by a mac truck - EFRA caved under PRO-driver pressure, they split 4 and 6, reset up heats - many pro factory sponsored drivers would have not made the A main, relatively unknown 6-cell driver was qual'd second - at the end only the 4 cells got worldwide posts on results, equip used, etc - 6-cell winners in a photo, treated as a by-the-way also ran class 1/10 pan oval [/B]had a huge resistance going to 4 cells, i saw races where 6-cell classes ran into 2006. when the lipos were starting to be allowed into RC car racing, 2s was deemed to fast in pan oval especially with a 13.5 which was way faster than any 27T and 19T brushed motor. that when the oval racers started asking for 17.5 motors and it was still too fast with 2s. they went 1s problem was fixed. i was still racing 12th at the time, most of us went BL but stayed with 4 cell nmh till lipo batteries were sorted out, we then started using 1s lipos like 1/10 pan oval racers were using 17.5 are now faster than 13.5 of 10 years ago, using a higher voltage super slim 2s shorty in a 1/12th with a 21.5 imo would not make a difference. maybe with a 25.5, but it wouldn't take long for for a 25.5 - 2s to be faster than a 17.5 - 1s |
Originally Posted by Drew Manzella
(Post 14442288)
Keep in mind that back in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s 12th scale ran 4 cell while everything else ran 6 cell. Running less cells is nothing new.
. in the 80's used 6 cells outdoors, 4 or 6 indoors based on track size, but 6 was dominant in the 90's, 6 cells were still being used in US indoors and outdoors. 1990 at ROAR level 1/12 scale was run as 2 classes, 4 and 6 cell mod 1994 IFMAR 1/12 worlds run indoor carpet, carefully watch beginning 6 cells. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsKENSGBG-k 1996 iIFMAR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4WPnYJs4XA watch carefully till you get to Cliff Lett, he has 6 cells hard to tell with black shrink wrap, but when the camera pans out, briefly left there is another car with 6 cells in the corner in the 2000's while not in the US, you see my post above about 2004 EFRA run indoors with some using 6 cells. 2004 AE released RC12l4, no longer has 6 cell slots |
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