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Old 04-12-2004, 09:01 AM   #6016
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDogRacing
[B]Do you realize how many people sold/refrained from purchasing the EVO3 because of the oneway and diff gear problems?
honestly, where my tracks are... nobody thinks its even an issue.
EvoIII is as popular as any other Tamiya product and I doubt if
its had any effect on sales. Imho the biggest damper on sales has
been (1) EvoIII stocks sold out very quickly and (2) the Surikarn
took a while to get here, so by then many had grey-imported.

Besides, the diff gear DOES NOT make you DNF your race, unlike
gear & belt problems in other cars. You usually wouldn't know
your EvoIII had lost some teeth until you next check your car,
your car doesn't simply stop dead in the middle of the track.

Quote:
My ideas for a better car: (off the top of my head- I have more)
... Transponder Mount!!
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Old 04-12-2004, 09:59 AM   #6017
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Quote:
Originally posted by WC
Besides, the diff gear DOES NOT make you DNF your race, unlike
gear & belt problems in other cars. You usually wouldn't know
your EvoIII had lost some teeth until you next check your car,
your car doesn't simply stop dead in the middle of the track.
That is a very good and important point.
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Old 04-12-2004, 12:13 PM   #6018
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BigDog
I think your knowledge about tuning a fullsize racecar is a big advantage over about 99 percent of all RC-drivers here. So you know what you are doing.
I have to say I donīt know too much about suspension theories Iīm more about the try and error principle. The other problem is there is absolutely no permanent racingtrack in my area so I canīt do any testing between races. If I wanna try something I have to drive at least 500 to 600 km a day and as the costs for fuel is way higher here than in the USA Iīm doing tests about 5 - 6 times only a year. So Iīm limited to practice at races. So you see anybody able testing and driving 1 or 2 times a week will have a big advantage over me as I never will have a car with setting up at 100 percent.
This means I need a car working as good as possible with something like a basic setup on every track so I have to do small changes only and could concentrate on driving. I had different cars in the last years some working good some working bad for me. As a summary only the XXX-S and now the EVO3 worked for me in this area. After the XXX-S I had the TC3 but there were not too many races were I was able winning a race. One thing is for sure the TC3 is a very fast car but only with lot of work. I had too many races were I was completely off the pace because I didnīt find the right setup during the short time of practice. This was specially at lowgrip tracks.
Also there were some things I never liked with the TC3. Drivetrain may be bulletproof with the TC3 but the suspension plasticparts are far too brittle. I had too many DNF when someone hit me when I wanted to overtake. I never experienced this with any other car. Also the TC3 have some problems with torque steer and chassis tweaking because of hot motors and such things. I didnīt came across such things with the EVO3. There is no perfect 1:10 touring car as every other thing in real world too. So also the EVO3 isnīt perfect as you have mentioned already. But I doubt there will be any car released close to perfect. From what I have seen when the Pro4 was released there was a hype about this car. About everybody wanted to buy this car or did it and what did they find? Problems with onewaygears and too much steering for the average driver.

Look at the Yok SD. How much different chassis are available now for this car? What quality is the plastic?

But back to the EVO3. Yes your absolutely right drivetrain and gearbox absolutely need a redesign. But from what I have heard itīs seems to be very hard making a perfect gearbox from any plastic. Even the TC3 and Pro4 doesnīt have perfect gearboxes.

As I have the Square gearboxes now I wonīt change back for any plastic even as these are somewhat heavier and more expensive. Drivetrain works so much better and chassis stiffness is even better than the TC3 graphite chassis. Maybe the XXX-S graphite chassis is even more stiff. It isnīt very much difference removing the plastic chassis brace but at least you can save some weight and using this at the right side for a better weight distribution.

What I donīt understand why do you think the EVO3 isn't good for carpet? Is it only because of a not stiff enough chassis? The aluminium gearboxes and upper mounts will make the chassis stiff as hell. For the shocktowers you could be using 2 of them glued together.

I donīt know of front/rear weight distribution with the EVO3 but I think the current battery position is far better than the 2 positions with the TC3. The rear position isnīt working and the front position sometimes is too aggressive.

What do you mean when you say the US carpettracks have more traction? I think you are talking about racing with foams. In regard of rubber racing I donīt think there will be much difference from European to US indoor tracks. Maybe traction compound will make a somewhat difference as in European Racing usually all wintergreen based stuff is banned. I and most other drivers never want back that smelly stuff.

As I know you like a chassis as stiff as possible why do I found even US drivers making their chassis softer. Look for Kinwaldīs XXX-S. I even saw some TC3 pictures with softened chassisbraces. Is this for rubber tires only?

Donīt take me wrong but I think the EVO3 isnīt that bad at all.
One thing I forgot why I changed to the EVO3. Spareparts are much cheaper for me than any Associated, Losi or HPI car. Maybe itīs diffrent in the USA.

From what I saw from the 415 some flaws beside the drivetrain difference are fixed. I have heard the 415 should be a little faster than the EVO3 but I donīt know if this is really true.
What I found the 415 is using lowered hinge pin blocks and a wider track. As you have knockledge about suspension what will be different at the track with these changes? I think a wider track overall should be a little more stable but from what I saw the front track is wider in compare to the EVO3 than the rear track.
Iīm thinking of trying these blocks at the EVO3 also.
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Old 04-12-2004, 12:15 PM   #6019
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Weekend racer,

pick one of those lightweight shafts up from me next time i see ya, i have a spare.

I think the evo4 sounds quite tempting but can you ever be sure enough..

i definetly wont be buying one untill the Worlds are over, because if surikarn wins....

SE EDITIONS ALL AROUND!!

Tarnj
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Old 04-12-2004, 01:19 PM   #6020
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Cheers Tarnjit , let me know next time you go to the track for some testing and i will pop down.

Just rebuilt my EVO III SE with alloy gearboxes i brought second hand but i forget who they are made by but i know they are not square items. Dont seem to have any tight spots in the drive train even with the one-way fitted. No need for any shims which is good as i dont have any.

Thinking about dropping my sponsored drive and using the SE once again as i can not get on the pace with the other car. I found it so easy last year to get the SE dailed into any track i am really starting to miss it now.

Looking forward to seeing some information on the EVO IV.
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Old 04-12-2004, 01:25 PM   #6021
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nice nice mate

hopefully saturday and ill be at sunday club meeting. my drive train is verry good at the moment. with the lightweight shaft alloy cases and i shaved a tiny bit from the plastice cases.

another good thing was after inspecting my lightweight shaft end it is hardly worn at all after wuite alot of racing too...

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Old 04-12-2004, 01:26 PM   #6022
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDogRacing
Are you kidding? Do you realize how many people sold/refrained from purchasing the EVO3 because of the oneway and diff gear problems? Not to mention all the people that were deferred from considering the car because of all the poor press on drivetrain? It was horrible. The car still sold well but it was only a fraction of what would've been possible sales.

As far as the improvements, I made it clear the car isn't good for carpet. That simply proves that the car isn't rigid enough or tunable enough.

V12- I understand what you are saying about the chassis. Keep in mind you are talking about less traction conditions than we typically race on here in the states. I'm sure you and the overseas guys are good drivers and good tuners so I'm not trying to degrade you or anyone else's tuning abilities. I realize that softening the rigidity is a way of tuning an r/c car, but I don't believe it is a correct way to tune. The TC3 is rigid enough for carpet and is still plenty tunable for lower traction conditions. It's harder to tune for less traction, but still possible. My whole basis for this comes from full size race car tuning and in 22 years of racing I have never seen or heard of anyone removing gussets, roll cage connectors or bracing to tune a car for a slick track.

My ideas for a better car: (off the top of my head- I have more)
- fix the drivetrain even if it means 2 or 3 piece shaft.
- THICKER SHOCK TOWERS- please, my Surikarn shock towers twist like mush
- wider front shock tower- need at lest one more hole to stand the shock up
- corner braces for the upper deck like the 415
- carpet upper deck option. less holes, 3mm
- graphite tranny cases (makes the car more rigid)
- lower the hinge pins and give me anodized spacers with the same footprint as the block to raise it back up when needed
- move the hinge pin braces and front bumper back 2mm. this will essentially move chassis and most of the weight forward 2mm leaving the bumper and front body posts in the same position relative to the body. you can still move the weight back with the spacers. I don't know of anyone or never seen a setup where someone had the arms all the way forward which tells me they are too far forward. We move the front arms all the way back and then sweep them back with the hingepin blocks to get the weight forward fro carpet.
- caster blocks with different caster options!!!! GEEZ, gimme a break. Is there another car on the market that only has ONE caster block and no optional blocks?
- rear hubs like the 415 in graphite and aluminum
- optional motor mount that uses the forward spur gear adapter hole on the driveshaft and moves the motor forward the same amount. Basically a motor mount with the screw holes moved back 3.5mm or whatever distance that hole is from stock.
- make the screw holes in the aluminum servo mounts differnt distances on top and bottom so you can flip the servo mount over and move the servo forward 2mm
- optional aluminum center brace(s). Please tell me why I have to buy soemthing like that aftermarket?
- fix the swaybar mounts where the waybars at least work a LITTLE without 10 minutes of adjustments!
One of the reasons why I kept my TRF 414M instead of getting an Evo 3 was indeed the poor design of the drive train, and I decided this the first time I saw the car on Tamiya's website, something in my head told me it's not going to work properly.

As for stiffness, stiffer is always faster IF setup properly. What happens is that a softer chassis masks a bad setup, as it's no longer your suspension that gives you grip, because the chassis takes a part in it. This is what we don't want, otherwise we'd have pan cars.

I don't really understand why you want lower hinge pins for high traction tracks, usually you want to raise the roll center to prevent the car from grip rolling. Low roll centers are good for low traction tracks.

In any case, a TB 4 should definately have a better drive train and tuneability (which was not that bad on the 3).
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Old 04-12-2004, 03:50 PM   #6023
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anyone that says the evo 3 is not good on carpet is very wrong i know for a fact the car work great on carpet with foams i am faster with this car then i ever was with my losi ,the evo 3 is great and offcourse it can be improved but what car doesnt its all about driving style and patience.
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Old 04-12-2004, 04:56 PM   #6024
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Quote:
Originally posted by ngo8
anyone that says the evo 3 is not good on carpet is very wrong i know for a fact the car work great on carpet with foams i am faster with this car then i ever was with my losi ,the evo 3 is great and offcourse it can be improved but what car doesnt its all about driving style and patience.
Would you please post your set-up then for those people that have fought ir for the last year.
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Old 04-12-2004, 05:28 PM   #6025
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i get my set ups from martin crisp he is a tamiya driver that runs the evo 3 on carpet and his setups work well he had a website where i got some set ups but for some reason its not working .
its mpowerd-racing.com he has setups on there.
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Old 04-12-2004, 06:09 PM   #6026
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Quote:
Originally posted by ngo8
i get my set ups from martin crisp he is a tamiya driver that runs the evo 3 on carpet and his setups work well he had a website where i got some set ups but for some reason its not working .
its mpowerd-racing.com he has setups on there.
Thanks, I'll ask him directly, he will owe me one, seeing as he is testing my spool for the 415.
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Old 04-12-2004, 06:56 PM   #6027
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I agree Martin occassionally gets the car to run well, but look at his performance at the Nats- he just couldn't make the car work. Keep in mind that sometimes the car will work at certain carpet tracks. I'm not sure why it does some places and doesn't other places, but the TC3 works almost the same on all tracks. All the fast stock and mod TC3 drivers start with their basic carpet setup and make minor adjustments for the layout and traction conditions. Unlike the EVO3 where one setup works weel at one track and then the next carpet track it totally sucks. I ran Martin's Cleveland setup that he said ran very well on our carpet track and in Orlando. The car was rolling so bad and unagressive it was pitiful.

Cobra- because I would rather lower the front roll center to gain front traction than raise the rear to lose traction, or at least have the option to do so.
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Old 04-12-2004, 07:11 PM   #6028
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Quote:
Originally posted by WC
Has anybody successfully removed the one-way's bearings before?

Can I just press them out or is there something else fixing them in?

tia
sorry on the repetition folks... anyone any idea on this?
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Old 04-12-2004, 08:06 PM   #6029
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well they dont always work big dog but they give you a starting point which is good, not everyone has the same driving style you always have to adjust the set up a little , and he did do crappy at the nats but he was swapping cars between heats as he was testing the new 415 .
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Old 04-13-2004, 02:17 AM   #6030
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDogRacing
Cobra- because I would rather lower the front roll center to gain front traction than raise the rear to lose traction, or at least have the option to do so.
Ever thought about using suspension blocks from the TRF 414M ? They're a perfect fit and their holes are 2mm lower...
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