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Old 09-13-2003, 10:51 PM   #3826
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Here's my setup:

Front:
60wt oil
blue spring
0 toe
1.5 degrees camber
4mm ride height
outside camber link position with 3mm shim under it
outside hole on tower and arm for shock position
2mm of droop
.7 mm shim under the front suspension block
yellow swaybar

Rear:
55wt oil
blue spring (need more rear traction? just go to yellow spring!)
a block for toe
1 degree of camber
4.5mm ride height
middle camber link position
3mm of droop
1.5 mm shim under front suspension block and 1mm under the rear one
one hole in from the outside on top, and outside on the arm for shock position
yellow swaybar

one way; tight rear diff
Take Off cs-27 or 32 spec tires
protoform alfa 2.0

I race on a high traction asphalt track with mdo motors. Hope this helps.

-Sushi Boy
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Old 09-13-2003, 11:54 PM   #3827
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Quote:
Originally posted by MDawson
that is odd. fred said that counter sinking the top deck was NOT tcs legal. the guys at the tech table confirmed that and said it would have to reverted back to the original for the nationals.
He said it was only legal for GT1, where you can cut/mill the chassis.

The rest of the classes it is illegal.

Countersinking the holes is not a performance enhancement anyway it just keeps the top plate from tweaking the rest of the chassis in a hard crash. If you don't crash then you will not need to modify..... It is also a way to shave off precious grams in GT1

Hopefully Fred and the guys in tech will get onto the same page for the next race.

Coop

Last edited by gcooper; 09-14-2003 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 09-14-2003, 06:06 AM   #3828
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Default Thanks sushi boy

I appreciate that, if there are anymore setups or places that I can get setups from please let me know.
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Old 09-14-2003, 06:22 AM   #3829
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ay wats up evo3 owners. i have a severe tweek issue. when i am driving, no matter how soft the hit is, whenever i brush up against a pipe or something my car just becomes tweeked and it feels crap to drive.

i set it up well before a race but even the smallest hit tweeks the car, leading it to pull to one side under hard acceleration.

is this due to my top plate tweeking? would i benefit from countersinking the top deck screws? the crashes ushually aren't that big....well sometimes yeah, but the last time i tweeked it it occured brushing (litteraly) against a pipe!

what bit size do i need to counter sink the top deck?

i use the square alloy mid mounts with the nylon middle part.
pm or respond here please! i t drives me nuts. i have to drive like surikarn every heat... I CAN'T DO IT!
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Old 09-14-2003, 07:19 AM   #3830
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Default Re: Thanks sushi boy

Quote:
Originally posted by picco007
I appreciate that, if there are anymore setups or places that I can get setups from please let me know.
No problem

-Sushi Boy
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Old 09-14-2003, 08:57 AM   #3831
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Quote:
Originally posted by gcooper
He said it was only legal for GT1, where you can cut/mill the chassis.

The rest of the classes it is illegal.

Countersinking the holes is not a performance enhancement anyway it just keeps the top plate from tweaking the rest of the chassis in a hard crash. If you don't crash then you will not need to modify..... It is also a way to shave off precious grams in GT1

Hopefully Fred and the guys in tech will get onto the same page for the next race.

Coop
Having never been to Tamiya's track yet, what the heck class is GT1? I get so confused with the classes they list...
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Old 09-14-2003, 09:01 AM   #3832
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Quote:
Originally posted by VenomWorldOrder
ay wats up evo3 owners. i have a severe tweek issue. when i am driving, no matter how soft the hit is, whenever i brush up against a pipe or something my car just becomes tweeked and it feels crap to drive.

i set it up well before a race but even the smallest hit tweeks the car, leading it to pull to one side under hard acceleration.

is this due to my top plate tweeking? would i benefit from countersinking the top deck screws? the crashes ushually aren't that big....well sometimes yeah, but the last time i tweeked it it occured brushing (litteraly) against a pipe!

what bit size do i need to counter sink the top deck?

i use the square alloy mid mounts with the nylon middle part.
pm or respond here please! i t drives me nuts. i have to drive like surikarn every heat... I CAN'T DO IT!
Well until you can drive like Surikarn, I'd give countersinking the top deck a shot... Just use a regular countersink bit, and only go until the screw is flush. If you go too deep, you might not be able to tighten it all the way, because you'd be trying to tighten the bottom of the flathead screw into the posts. If you dont go deep enough, it looks like ass

Also, before you run, make sure all of your screws are tight on basically anything that could tweak. I know on my Surikarn at least, there's a lot of aluminum to thread into, without loctite, the screws do have a chance of vibrating loose.
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Old 09-14-2003, 10:54 AM   #3833
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Default Countersinking chassis plates and TCS Rules.

I don't know what that fred guy would say, but I think countersinking is "re-engineering" or "modifying" the car, and is strictly forbidden by any of the following rules:

(excerpts from Tamiya website re: Rules for Nationals)
Rules governing all classes: TCS Finals 2003

5. Any Tamiya Hop-Op Option and spare part is allowed as long as it is used in the way it was designed, and on the vehicle it was designed for. Except for the GT1 class, it is strictly forbidden to cut, mill or lighten the chassis. It is strictly forbidden to re-engineer or modify the cars in any way other than with the use of Tamiya Hop-Ups.

12. Any modification not called out specifically in these rules is not legal.

14. Lightweight screws that are made of aluminum, steel or Titanium that are made by other manufactures is now allowed. I.e. any screw is now legal. They must be used on the car in the places that screws and nuts are designed to be.

17. If a driver finds a loophole within the rules, that exploitation will be deemed illegal. (This rule will soon be infamous.)

The following is 'My Opinion'!

GT1 rules DO allow for drilling or milling to "lighten" the chassis. Countersinking a hole may be considered 'lightening" if that hole is not used.

IMHO, replacing a socket head or button head screw inserted through a straight drilled hole with a flathead screw into that same hole which was been modified to a countersunk hole to change the general characteristics of that chassis as designed and its' alleged "tendency to tweak" when it is bumped or is involved in an impact (accident) is clearly an attempt to modify the basic character of that chassis as designed. (Read all threads above.)

If a flathead screw were inserted into a countersunk washer (Tamiya does make and sell these), that would be using a Tamiya hop-up (legal, see rule 5) as designed and should be allowed if the hole remains drilled straight without the countersink.

Let the whining begin!!!!!!!

Miles,
Terra Crushers ROCK!
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Old 09-14-2003, 11:06 AM   #3834
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Default Re: Countersinking chassis plates and TCS Rules.

Quote:
Originally posted by radar
5. Any Tamiya Hop-Op Option and spare part is allowed as long as it is used in the way it was designed, and on the vehicle it was designed for. Except for the GT1 class, it is strictly forbidden to cut, mill or lighten the chassis. It is strictly forbidden to re-engineer or modify the cars in any way other than with the use of Tamiya Hop-Ups.
I think that sums it up right there... But isn't TCS almost over anyway?

I'll definately do the mod for SoCal and other tracks, and if there is any problem at Tamiya, I'll buy another upper deck.
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Old 09-14-2003, 11:25 AM   #3835
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Default Re: Countersinking chassis plates and TCS Rules.

Quote:
Originally posted by radar
Except for the GT1 class, it is strictly forbidden to cut, mill or lighten the chassis.
Radar, the EVO3 is only legal for GT1, and it says right above "Except for the GT1 class". So it's obviously legal to mill, cut, or lighten the chassis on the EVO3. Plain and simple.
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Old 09-14-2003, 11:32 AM   #3836
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Fred has puteth his size seventeen foot down...Countersinking the upper deck in GT1 is legal. End of story.
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Old 09-14-2003, 02:24 PM   #3837
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BigDogRacing:Radar, the EVO3 is only legal for GT1, and it says right above "Except for the GT1 class". So it's obviously legal to mill, cut, or lighten the chassis on the EVO3. Plain and simple.
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Old 09-14-2003, 02:52 PM   #3838
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As my standing indicates, I am a rookie, so sorry for the incomplete post just above.

BigDogRacing, If you read my previous post, I state I agree it is legal to cut, mill or lighten the chassis in GT1. But if you read the next sentence in rule 5,...."It is strictly forbidden to re-engineer or modify the cars in any way other than with the use of Tamiya Hop-Ups." you will find the basis for my opinion and the logic to my argument.

I think you all must agree that this thread has been speaking to changing the chassis shortcomings (as the original chassis is unfortunatly designed) by countersinking upper deck holes with the belief the modification to 'countersunk holes with flathead screws' on the upper deck will help prevent chassis 'tweak' after a collision.

My only point ... In MY opinion this should be considered re-engineering or modifying the cars.

It is this type of loose interpretation of the rules Tamiya has attemted to capture in rule 12 and 17. We all remember the fiasco at tech last year at nationals when the inspectors, following the letter of the rules, made racers change many screws on their chassis plates even though there was absolutly NO advantage to be gained. Tamiya has recognized when something is an advantage or modification and when something is not and has attemted to make clear and fair rules with their changes.

If someone can point out to Tamiya how they have countersunk upper chassis mounting holes and installed flathead screws, and did not gain an improvement over the chasss rigidity as designed, I will stand corrected. But aren't the many post earlier on this thread in clear contradiction of the above premise.

Miles,
Terra Crushers ROCK!
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Old 09-14-2003, 03:34 PM   #3839
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As far as the screws and fastners rule, this year's rules has relaxed on that point, pllus last year tech had the parts if you needed them to get your car past tech. As far as the countersinking of the upper deck, it is up to the discretion of the race director, and he has spoken. It 's legal! To quote Rtypec "End of story".
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Old 09-14-2003, 05:15 PM   #3840
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Probably for unity sake they should make the countersinking rule legal for any class that uses an FRP or graphite top plate. Some people when they got their 414s or Evos converted their 04s to one of the stock classes GT2 or GT3.

I could see tech getting confused on a race day or weekend with same/simular cars with different rules.

I used the cheapio way for countersinking, an assortment of drillbits and a hand crank Coop energy power drill. An electric one would go too far and tear up the graphite.

Seems whenever I want to countersink I don't feel like going out to find the bits.

Coop
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