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Old 08-29-2003, 06:09 PM   #3481
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Default ONE-WAY ISSUE

Hi Guys,
Just got my EvoIII SL and have read heard the issues with the One Way bevel gears.

What I was wanting is for someone to explain what the cause of the problem is. I am going to put my effort into solving the problem the best I can but first I need to know what exactly it is that happens to cause the gears to mis mesh.

You can just PM me if you like rather than bring it up here.

Steevo
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Old 08-29-2003, 06:43 PM   #3482
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Okay, I typed all of this out a while ago and sent it as a PM. I guess it'd be better if I were to share this with all of you...

...

I too used acer ceramic bearings in my Evo3. Even though the bearings already come with a light lube, I still blew them out with motorspray and put 2-3 drops of Acer bearing lube, Trinity Royal Oil or whatever you can find into each one. I did this to all but the steering and diff ball bearings.

If you access to the spray-on dry lube White Lightning (available at bicycle shops), spray all of the gears that go in the gearboxes with a nice coat before you assemble them. This helps quiet the drivetrain down and proves to have less "stiction" than grease because it is dry.

For the universals, go to a motorcycle shop and pick up Maxima chain lube. This stuff is what DJ and the other drivers at TamiyaUSA use. Put together the universals using loctite on the set screws and when complete, fill the universal with the spray lube and let it dry. You'll find that the universals stay in good shape for a long time and when you clean them, all you do is spray them out with motorspray and relube them with Maxima. Good stuff! (I've used the same universals for the past 6 months with no tearing down, just clean out with motorspray and relube)

As for putting the drivetrain together and using shims...it varies from kit to kit. The most important thing is to make sure that the bearings are fully pressed onto the crown gears (the small gears that drive shaft go onto). Also, you can use tamiya shims to space the one-way gear/diff gear closer or further away from the crown gears. Typically, I don't need to shim but depending on how free you want your drive train, I'd used either a 0.1mm or 0.2mm shim to adjust. If you go to far, the crown and one-way/diff gear won't have enough mesh and you'll strip them (done that many times )

Also, when screwing the one way gear onto the one-way, use blue loctite and tighten until it is snug. Do not over tighten or else you will warp the gear at those four points. If you don't have an EvoS, then I would suggest you get the one way backing plate. It adds support to the plastic one way gear and keeps it flat and running true.

Make sure that you have a straight center driveshaft. Sometimes they bend in extreme wrecks. It's always good to have a couple spares handy as they do not cost that much.

When you assemble the gearboxes and motor plate to the chassis, make sure you line them up as straight as possible, this shouldn't be a problem with new chassis. Mine is rather old so the the screw holes are rather elongated in one direction or another...but that's a different story.

Do not overtighten the three screws that hold the gear box cover on. They can cause binding. Just tighten until snug.

Once things are together, just do a spin test and go from there. It's mostly trial and error but you can easily find out what you need to do to find that freeness. Be careful, sometimes a drivetrain that is too free with no load can cause the coffee grinder noise (no enough mesh between the crown and oneway/diff gear) when you run a hot mod (12T or less)

If you get it right, you can have a drivetrain that spins for 20seconds with wheels on. Don't worry if at first you don't get a long free spin, sometimes the bearings/gears need a few runs to get used to each other

One last thing, keep a bunch of one-way gears handy. Yes, they do have a tendancy to strip but I go through them like they are motor brushes...a disposable item. They aren't that expensive if you can find them in bulk

Other than that...that's pretty much what I do. Just take your time and get acquainted with what does what with the drivetrain and you should have no problem with it.

.....


Okay...I think that covers it
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Old 08-29-2003, 07:43 PM   #3483
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDogRacing
[B] What ball cups are you guys using? I've found the Tamiya black balls cups are like the AE cups in that if you brush a pipe just right, it'll pop right off. Even if they're new and you don't have to hit very hard.
Hmmm, where have I heard this before, oh wait, I mentioned this to you at the track

What about the RPM cups?
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Old 08-29-2003, 09:29 PM   #3484
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Default Re: Tips and Tricks

Quote:
Originally posted by rtypec

As for putting the drivetrain together and using shims...it varies from kit to kit. The most important thing is to make sure that the bearings are fully pressed onto the crown gears (the small gears that drive shaft go onto). Also, you can use tamiya shims to space the one-way gear/diff gear closer or further away from the crown gears. Typically, I don't need to shim but depending on how free you want your drive train, I'd used either a 0.1mm or 0.2mm shim to adjust. If you go to far, the crown and one-way/diff gear won't have enough mesh and you'll strip them (done that many times )

Also, when screwing the one way gear onto the one-way, use blue loctite and tighten until it is snug. Do not over tighten or else you will warp the gear at those four points. If you don't have an EvoS, then I would suggest you get the one way backing plate. It adds support to the plastic one way gear and keeps it flat and running true.

When you assemble the gearboxes and motor plate to the chassis, make sure you line them up as straight as possible, this shouldn't be a problem with new chassis. Mine is rather old so the the screw holes are rather elongated in one direction or another...but that's a different story.

Do not overtighten the three screws that hold the gear box cover on. They can cause binding. Just tighten until snug.

If you get it right, you can have a drivetrain that spins for 20seconds with wheels on. Don't worry if at first you don't get a long free spin, sometimes the bearings/gears need a few runs to get used to each other

One last thing, keep a bunch of one-way gears handy. Yes, they do have a tendancy to strip but I go through them like they are motor brushes...a disposable item. They aren't that expensive if you can find them in bulk
hi there....my one way gear got a problem. it's no longer vertically straight!! and it created this "noisy gear mesh problem sort of thing" whenever i corner. on the straight, its normal, quiet and fast. i really need that surikarn backing plate. the dealer have no stock, where can i get this part...its graphite rite. obviously im using the EVO III non SE. pls help me. thanks.
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Old 08-29-2003, 10:27 PM   #3485
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Default Re: Tips and Tricks

Quote:
Originally posted by rtypec
Okay, I typed all of this out a while ago and sent it as a PM. I guess it'd be better if I were to share this with all of you...

...

I too used acer ceramic bearings in my Evo3. Even though the bearings already come with a light lube, I still blew them out with motorspray and put 2-3 drops of Acer bearing lube, Trinity Royal Oil or whatever you can find into each one. I did this to all but the steering and diff ball bearings.

If you access to the spray-on dry lube White Lightning (available at bicycle shops), spray all of the gears that go in the gearboxes with a nice coat before you assemble them. This helps quiet the drivetrain down and proves to have less "stiction" than grease because it is dry.

For the universals, go to a motorcycle shop and pick up Maxima chain lube. This stuff is what DJ and the other drivers at TamiyaUSA use. Put together the universals using loctite on the set screws and when complete, fill the universal with the spray lube and let it dry. You'll find that the universals stay in good shape for a long time and when you clean them, all you do is spray them out with motorspray and relube them with Maxima. Good stuff! (I've used the same universals for the past 6 months with no tearing down, just clean out with motorspray and relube)

As for putting the drivetrain together and using shims...it varies from kit to kit. The most important thing is to make sure that the bearings are fully pressed onto the crown gears (the small gears that drive shaft go onto). Also, you can use tamiya shims to space the one-way gear/diff gear closer or further away from the crown gears. Typically, I don't need to shim but depending on how free you want your drive train, I'd used either a 0.1mm or 0.2mm shim to adjust. If you go to far, the crown and one-way/diff gear won't have enough mesh and you'll strip them (done that many times )

Also, when screwing the one way gear onto the one-way, use blue loctite and tighten until it is snug. Do not over tighten or else you will warp the gear at those four points. If you don't have an EvoS, then I would suggest you get the one way backing plate. It adds support to the plastic one way gear and keeps it flat and running true.

Make sure that you have a straight center driveshaft. Sometimes they bend in extreme wrecks. It's always good to have a couple spares handy as they do not cost that much.

When you assemble the gearboxes and motor plate to the chassis, make sure you line them up as straight as possible, this shouldn't be a problem with new chassis. Mine is rather old so the the screw holes are rather elongated in one direction or another...but that's a different story.

Do not overtighten the three screws that hold the gear box cover on. They can cause binding. Just tighten until snug.

Once things are together, just do a spin test and go from there. It's mostly trial and error but you can easily find out what you need to do to find that freeness. Be careful, sometimes a drivetrain that is too free with no load can cause the coffee grinder noise (no enough mesh between the crown and oneway/diff gear) when you run a hot mod (12T or less)

If you get it right, you can have a drivetrain that spins for 20seconds with wheels on. Don't worry if at first you don't get a long free spin, sometimes the bearings/gears need a few runs to get used to each other

One last thing, keep a bunch of one-way gears handy. Yes, they do have a tendancy to strip but I go through them like they are motor brushes...a disposable item. They aren't that expensive if you can find them in bulk

Other than that...that's pretty much what I do. Just take your time and get acquainted with what does what with the drivetrain and you should have no problem with it.

.....


Okay...I think that covers it
Hey Rod,

I would like to know where you got the front one way gears in bulk. I'm like you, they are like brushes. They go out of my car every few runs. It gets kinda spendy after a while.

-Sushi Boy
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Old 08-29-2003, 11:45 PM   #3486
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Default Re: ONE-WAY ISSUE

Quote:
Originally posted by Steevo
Hi Guys,
Just got my EvoIII SL and have read heard the issues with the One Way bevel gears.

What I was wanting is for someone to explain what the cause of the problem is. I am going to put my effort into solving the problem the best I can but first I need to know what exactly it is that happens to cause the gears to mis mesh.

You can just PM me if you like rather than bring it up here.

Steevo
ANYONE????????
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Old 08-30-2003, 07:00 AM   #3487
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Steevo: The issue of the gears has already been discussed in this thread. Just scroll back a few pages and you'll find them.
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Old 08-30-2003, 07:30 AM   #3488
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Default Re: Re: Tips and Tricks

Quote:
Originally posted by Sushi Boy
Hey Rod,

I would like to know where you got the front one way gears in bulk. I'm like you, they are like brushes. They go out of my car every few runs. It gets kinda spendy after a while.

-Sushi Boy
I try Speedtech first...if they don't have them and I really need them in a hurry, I'll get em from Tamiya directly. The last dozen or so, I got from R10 when I bought B's.
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Old 08-30-2003, 07:40 AM   #3489
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Ran my Evo 3 S around Snetterton on thursday and Friday and i have to say with the setup we got from Halifax Reedy race the car was amazing, it had a very slight trace of understeer if pushed to hard but that was down to me running a C rear toe block and not a B one as i shud have. I ran on the pre glued up cs22 tyres i had left over from the reedy and the car carried so much corner speed and did not scrub off any speed at all and the drive train was nice and quiet and very free. All in all i am looking forward to running some BRCA meetings with this car, just need to find some more horse power from my Batteries and motors. Rick
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Old 08-30-2003, 09:01 AM   #3490
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@rick draper
Can you post the setup you got from the UK Reedy race?
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Old 08-30-2003, 09:58 AM   #3491
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The setup was something like this:

Front
Yellow spring,
400wt tamiya oil,
2 O rings in the shock bladers,
Shock tops in middle hole on tower,
Blue roll bar,
Camber link in inner upper hole on tower,
One way diff,
4.5mm ride height,
2 degrees of camber,
Droop was set with drive shafts just above level,
Wheel base was as kit but with 1mm spacer at the back of the front arms
0.5 degrees toe out

Rear,
Yellow spring,
400wt Tamiya oil,
2 O rings in the shock bladders,
Shock tops in middle hole,
Blue roll bar,
Camber link in lower inner hole,
2 degrees of camber,
Droop set with driveshafts just below level,
C rear toe in block
Outer link on the toe blocks,

Vectra shell,
Take off CS22/27 Tyres with std inserts,

Think thats about it.
Rick
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Old 08-30-2003, 11:04 AM   #3492
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Default Re: Re: Re: Tips and Tricks

Quote:
Originally posted by rtypec
I try Speedtech first...if they don't have them and I really need them in a hurry, I'll get em from Tamiya directly. The last dozen or so, I got from R10 when I bought B's.
Hmmmm, I can always see if Difuser has any left! Haha there a plan.

-Sushi Boy
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Old 08-30-2003, 11:31 AM   #3493
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Thanks Rick!
One question, did you use 2 hole pistons?
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Old 08-30-2003, 11:54 AM   #3494
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Yes we used the 2 hole standard TRF piston in the shocks. Rick
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Old 08-30-2003, 07:04 PM   #3495
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V12,

i remember you have posted Steen's Evo 3 with the SD drive shaft conversion. would you know off hand if he used the stock parts from the SD?

were there any mods made to fit the parts into the Evo III?

Thanks!
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