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Old 02-02-2016, 08:54 AM   #121
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Ok then, can you explain this setup sheet?
http://site.petitrc.com/reglages/ser...gwy2016012324/
Sure. Going wide for stability, which also will numb the side bite of the car, which should help decrease the chance of grip roll issues. The lower roll centers again, will help lessen side grip of the car, again, chasing grip roll issues. It looks like he is trying to keep the car soft in the first part of the corner as the chassis rolls thru the corner but then he is trying to get the tires to bite in to prevent a push in the corner. Stiffer will work to a certain point then it will start to fight against you, also where the car is stiff in the chassis will dictate when its good or bad in different grip situations, whether thats tires or surface. The 2.0mm hard carbon chassis has a different weave which makes it feel stiffer, I suspect thats why he ran the 2.0mm top deck instead of the 2.5, which would generate to much grip. It looks like the tires that he is running have a slightly higher sidewall or a slightly bigger air gap, so the tire want to roll over more till it bites in too hard. It really looks like he is trying to find a setup that would not produce a grip roll issue, but still give some high speed steering, and not have to glue the sidewalls of the tires. Some other things to note on that setup, is its like he is trying to stick the front end of the car, but wants the rear of the car to flex more, again, almost like the 2 ends of the car are fighting against each other.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:08 PM   #122
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Sure. Going wide for stability, which also will numb the side bite of the car, which should help decrease the chance of grip roll issues. The lower roll centers again, will help lessen side grip of the car, again, chasing grip roll issues. It looks like he is trying to keep the car soft in the first part of the corner as the chassis rolls thru the corner but then he is trying to get the tires to bite in to prevent a push in the corner. Stiffer will work to a certain point then it will start to fight against you, also where the car is stiff in the chassis will dictate when its good or bad in different grip situations, whether thats tires or surface. The 2.0mm hard carbon chassis has a different weave which makes it feel stiffer, I suspect thats why he ran the 2.0mm top deck instead of the 2.5, which would generate to much grip. It looks like the tires that he is running have a slightly higher sidewall or a slightly bigger air gap, so the tire want to roll over more till it bites in too hard. It really looks like he is trying to find a setup that would not produce a grip roll issue, but still give some high speed steering, and not have to glue the sidewalls of the tires. Some other things to note on that setup, is its like he is trying to stick the front end of the car, but wants the rear of the car to flex more, again, almost like the 2 ends of the car are fighting against each other.
Thanks! Thats exactly what i thought about that setup sheet. What i meant in my previous posts was that the new chassies have so much flex it works against you, so a harder chassies then the 2.25 is the way to go to reduce the chances of grip roll? Thats what i think. And also what my latest test showed, also team drivers have told me that the new car is made for asphalt wich need more chassie flex to produce grip.
If i am wrong, please tell me, i want to learn :P

Latest post on my blog with setup sheet. www.andrefossto.wordpress.com
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:35 PM   #123
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Thanks! Thats exactly what i thought about that setup sheet. What i meant in my previous posts was that the new chassies have so much flex it works against you, so a harder chassies then the 2.25 is the way to go to reduce the chances of grip roll? Thats what i think. And also what my latest test showed, also team drivers have told me that the new car is made for asphalt wich need more chassie flex to produce grip.
If i am wrong, please tell me, i want to learn :P

Latest post on my blog with setup sheet. www.andrefossto.wordpress.com
Setups are hard to understand sometimes unless your right there to observe whats going on with the car. Honestly I look at the setup sheet and some of the adjustments contradict each other. Things like roll centers in the upper and lower settings, the amount of spacers, wide arms but narrow hexes, its either pure genius or sheer insanity, lol, and not knowing what was tried which didn't work. I know lots of times some of them are just personal preference and totally contradict what all proven factors say they should do.

Its all good though, as long as we all learn something about how we want the car to handle.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:45 PM   #124
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Andy63, if you are running the 4.0 car with the aluminum chassis, I would consider modifying the center chassis stiffner and giving that a try as it really made a difference on the 3.0 aluminum car. The new motor mount doesn't tie in the stiffner bar so you'll have to cut some of the back off. The car is also provisioned for additional standoffs to tie the top deck to the chassis, most notable would be trying one up front by the steering. A cross piece across the steering arms may help a bit as well. I have done the standoff in the front but didn't like the abrupt "feel" of the steering, but this was on different carpet and tires then what you guys have.
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Old 02-02-2016, 02:18 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
Setups are hard to understand sometimes unless your right there to observe whats going on with the car. Honestly I look at the setup sheet and some of the adjustments contradict each other. Things like roll centers in the upper and lower settings, the amount of spacers, wide arms but narrow hexes, its either pure genius or sheer insanity, lol, and not knowing what was tried which didn't work. I know lots of times some of them are just personal preference and totally contradict what all proven factors say they should do.

Its all good though, as long as we all learn something about how we want the car to handle.

Actually, the setup i posted on my blog is almost exact copy of Viktor Wilcks setup on same track, but with small tweaks to my preference.
I use the 2.25mm chassie.

Wide front, but narrow hexes is becuse the car is to wide with std hexes. i would say that that setup i have on my blog would work for every 4.0 with tweaks here and there.
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Old 02-02-2016, 02:42 PM   #126
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Actually, the setup i posted on my blog is almost exact copy of Viktor Wilcks setup on same track, but with small tweaks to my preference.
I use the 2.25mm chassie.

Wide front, but narrow hexes is becuse the car is to wide with std hexes. i would say that that setup i have on my blog would work for every 4.0 with tweaks here and there.
FWIW, I was looking at Marks setup, not yours. Your setup looks more like to conventional thinking for setups.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:28 PM   #127
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Very high grip at that track so lower roll centers prevent traction roll. Actually, a soft chassis is a way to go in high grip situations because a stiff chassis rolls less to a certain point and then it tips over.
Soft setups for high traction is an oxymoron. Normally this increases mechanical traction, but. What is happening, imo, is chassis rub. The soft set-up allows the chassis to roll thus scrape the ground in turns. Effectively cancelling the ultra increase in traction which causes the car to flip.

It is effective and works, but may not be the fastest answer.
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Old 02-05-2016, 07:17 AM   #128
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Some new changes to the 4.0. They have made the car stiffer, like i said before it was needed. According to the team drivers, these updates make the car about 1-2 tenths per lap quicker. Sounds promising!
New top deck, old 3.0, 2.25mm carbon chassies and new servo mount. Picture below from redrc.
http://ets.redrc.net/wp-content/uplo...02/wil_CF2.jpg
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Old 02-05-2016, 07:19 AM   #129
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Viktor is driving the Xray geardiff at the picture and raised the topdeck with 1mm or so?
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:58 PM   #130
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Viktor is driving the Xray geardiff at the picture and raised the topdeck with 1mm or so?
He's been running the Xray diff pretty much since he started running the 411 so that is nothing new. It is the first time I've seen him use the floating top deck idea though.
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Old 02-05-2016, 11:02 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Andy63 View Post
Some new changes to the 4.0. They have made the car stiffer, like i said before it was needed. According to the team drivers, these updates make the car about 1-2 tenths per lap quicker. Sounds promising!
New top deck, old 3.0, 2.25mm carbon chassies and new servo mount. Picture below from redrc.
http://ets.redrc.net/wp-content/uplo...02/wil_CF2.jpg
I don't think it is a 'new' top deck just one of the optional solid decks which come in either 1.75mm, 2mm or 2.5mm it would be interesting to know exactly which one he is using.

http://www.serpent.com/product/401563/
http://www.serpent.com/product/401374/
http://www.serpent.com/product/401431/
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Old 02-06-2016, 01:07 AM   #132
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I don't think it is a 'new' top deck just one of the optional solid decks which come in either 1.75mm, 2mm or 2.5mm it would be interesting to know exactly which one he is using.

http://www.serpent.com/product/401563/
http://www.serpent.com/product/401374/
http://www.serpent.com/product/401431/
It's the 1.75 mm.
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Old 02-06-2016, 04:07 AM   #133
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Andy63, Good notes on the setups.
Stiffer is faster but as in all things in racing you can always go to far over the other side. In discussions with Martin Crisp the"softness" was to allow chassis roll and drag counteracting traction rolls. Works but, probally best on carpet where things are smoother. I believe the best truth lies else where.

But again we are at times limited to our rubber with foam liner with is NOT comparable to normal racing cars.
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Old 02-06-2016, 04:09 AM   #134
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It's the 1.75 mm.
Thanks.
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Old 02-08-2016, 02:53 AM   #135
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Ive tried the 3.0 ALU chassis and 1.75 mm "old" upper deck and found the car much easier to drive than with carbon chassis. This on carpet.
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