F1 class 2016
12-08-2015, 10:55 AM
#1
F1 class 2016
Hey all: With the F1 class seaming to be at an all time high right now with driver counts at events and so many companies now offering one were do you all see this class going? Does anyone see F1 replacing WGT? Will we see a "pro" class and or it being added to the IFMAR on road electric worlds? P.S. Although I'm not against adding a "pro" F1 class I think that even with the popularity and new tech for the F1 class growing fast these days we still need to keep in mind F1 was designed to be an entry level fun class so we need to remember that. Thanks 
12-08-2015, 11:07 AM
#2
Touring cars were also designed to be an "entry level fun class". If you have any of them, look back at the old RC Car Action magazines when Tamiya first came out with their touring cars. They were promoting them as inexpensive parking lot racers.
I think with any class that gets popular people are going to be more and more competitive and want to go faster and faster. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I think with any class that gets popular people are going to be more and more competitive and want to go faster and faster. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
12-08-2015, 01:03 PM
#3
F1 is older than dirt. The Tamiya Road Wizard came out in 86 and F1 racing was popular immediately. The recent re-emergence of this class first with foam and now with rubber tires and progressing from the T-Bar car to the dual link car and Brushed to Brushless growing pains all over the last 7 or 8 years. Interesting that some have suddenly discovered this NEW class.
F1 is not a beginner class. Open wheels require finesse and no banging. F1 is faster than most people expect and slower than some want. If you want more, go the F1 thread with a few pages to see what the class has and is going through.
F1 is not a beginner class. Open wheels require finesse and no banging. F1 is faster than most people expect and slower than some want. If you want more, go the F1 thread with a few pages to see what the class has and is going through.
12-08-2015, 01:51 PM
#4
F1 is older than dirt. The Tamiya Road Wizard came out in 86 and F1 racing was popular immediately. The recent re-emergence of this class first with foam and now with rubber tires and progressing from the T-Bar car to the dual link car and Brushed to Brushless growing pains all over the last 7 or 8 years. Interesting that some have suddenly discovered this NEW class.
F1 is not a beginner class. Open wheels require finesse and no banging. F1 is faster than most people expect and slower than some want. If you want more, go the F1 thread with a few pages to see what the class has and is going through.
F1 is not a beginner class. Open wheels require finesse and no banging. F1 is faster than most people expect and slower than some want. If you want more, go the F1 thread with a few pages to see what the class has and is going through.
To add, we should enjoy this time in F1 RC as the first run with it didn't last very long. It was hard to get into it if you didn't live in an area that was interested (like me, in heart of NASCAR in late 80s early to mid 90's). With the latest and lasting resurgence, about a dozen manufacturers instead of 1, its nice to see its popularity grow.
12-09-2015, 04:38 AM
#5
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
F1 surfaced a couple of years ago strongly at our local track with the VBC car on spec Pardus tires. It almost died because of the durability of the car and the sketchyness of that tire. We first changed to the TCS spec tires and things got much better and new cars began to come out (CRC, X-Ray and a new VBC). Still competition was missing because of how edgy the cars were due to their power. A test of lower power combinations proved interesting. The cars actually ran near equal laps and could do it more consistently. The power selection was 25.5 and 2 cells. We went from a 5 lap spread in the a main at major races to one at major races ( recent Indoor Champs 28 5:09 was TQ, 27's went to 4th in the "B"). I think we are back on track to growing the class again. Now there will be an influx of 25.5 motors and some new cars. Lets cross our fingers because it is a great class.
12-09-2015, 06:14 AM
#6
I'm new to F1 and had no problem with a 21.5. I bought a cheap Hobbywing Justock non timing motor, geared it to be about 120/130 temp and turned the punch control on ESC down a couple notches, and the EPA on throttle to 90%. Car ran great, ran a few laps in the fast guys range, but not consistently. But that's my driving and learning how to handle a 2wd car vs a 4wd. Had a blast. I think having just a bit more motor than needed is the best thing for this class. All going to 25.5 is going to do is cause a motor war since it will be running in the ragged edge of the motors performance envelope. It will cause the required use of fans to be competitive. No matter what, the fast guys will be fast, it will just cost more to do so.
12-09-2015, 06:42 AM
#7
I'm new to F1 and had no problem with a 21.5. I bought a cheap Hobbywing Justock non timing motor, geared it to be about 120/130 temp and turned the punch control on ESC down a couple notches, and the EPA on throttle to 90%. Car ran great, ran a few laps in the fast guys range, but not consistently. But that's my driving and learning how to handle a 2wd car vs a 4wd. Had a blast. I think having just a bit more motor than needed is the best thing for this class. All going to 25.5 is going to do is cause a motor war since it will be running in the ragged edge of the motors performance envelope. It will cause the required use of fans to be competitive. No matter what, the fast guys will be fast, it will just cost more to do so.
12-09-2015, 06:52 AM
#8
Yeah not so much on the motor war thing. Having been to 2 big races now on 25.5 power , I'm pretty well convinced 25.5 is the right speed for the cars. As old dude said, the qualifying times spread was really close, including 3 cars on the same second. This was with trinity, team scream, and a few other motors. Making the cars overpowered just reduces the participation.
12-09-2015, 07:23 AM
#9
So Rob, since you sound like you think that the 25.5 power plants are pretty close to equal power across the board, does that your willing to open up USVTA and F1 to motors other than Novak 25.5 for the point series?
Yes that can of worms just got opened.
Yes that can of worms just got opened.
12-10-2015, 03:51 AM
#12
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
I will make one statement about the 25.5 vs the 21.5. The 25.5 combo is the way to go on the tighter indoor tracks. Outdoors on bigger tracks it might feel slow. Now here is the main thing that the 25.5 has done. It makes for better racing in the class and that is what we are out here to do. Race, not just see how fast a hot lap you can lay down. At the Phoenix NASCAR race weekend I think Carl Edwards was in the broadcast booth during Xfinity practice and he educated the announcers on practice times. He told them he thought looking at hot lap was funny because the teams don't. They look at long run averages.
On the tighter indoor tracks the 25.5, being easier to drive puts down fast multi lap numbers for people of reasonable skill and lets the racers with less skill be able to handle the car better.
To support Rob's comment. Last year with a 21.5 at the Halloween Classic I missed the "A" but the spread on the top 10 was about 4 laps. This year with 25.5 cars that spread was a lap. At the Indoor Champs one car ran a slow 28 and the next 13 ran 27's (me included). That is competition and everyone enjoyed it.
On the tighter indoor tracks the 25.5, being easier to drive puts down fast multi lap numbers for people of reasonable skill and lets the racers with less skill be able to handle the car better.
To support Rob's comment. Last year with a 21.5 at the Halloween Classic I missed the "A" but the spread on the top 10 was about 4 laps. This year with 25.5 cars that spread was a lap. At the Indoor Champs one car ran a slow 28 and the next 13 ran 27's (me included). That is competition and everyone enjoyed it.
12-10-2015, 04:23 AM
#13
I love to run F1, but it pains me to see WGT suffer at the hands of it
12-10-2015, 06:30 AM
#14
I have a few questions about this possible change. Are these new F1/ motor rules going to supersede UF1 rules? Are the new F1 rules going to be ROAR F1 rules? Is 21.5 going to be ROAR approved for outdoor/ asphalt? Will it be open 25.5? Oh and do we really have to change F1? It ain't broke so why fix it? I know there has been a lot of talk of slowing r/c down which I understand the concept but F1 isn't over the top fast IMO. Its just RIGHT 8 )
12-10-2015, 08:31 AM
#15
We have to be honest. Rob has stated that F1 is a niche class in a small racing segment of a hobby that is predominantly bashers that don't give a flip about racing.
Modern RC F1 is not included in the ROAR rule set. They haven't adopted a rule set from UF1 or TCS or created their own. We are generally running gentlemen's agreement and using the ROAR equipment list with any F104 based rubber tires based on UF1 chassis rules here in the US. The current motor limit is 21.5 in those rules. Some tracks are running 25.5 to improve the quality of racing as the cars are more controllable. Some racers are finding this removes some of the challenge of running a motor that has slightly more power than the track can handle. Not ballistic fast, but proof of skill is the result. Lap times are showing that the motor change is not ruining the competition as the cars can develop only so much speed and traction on the rubber tires in most cases on small to medium sized indoor carpet tracks. The UK is running 21.5 and also allowing 13.5 1S cars with a 100g weight advantage and are finding the same sort of parity with rubber tires. They are using GRP premounts as a control tire with results similar to ours in the US. TCS is just starting F1 this year running 21.5 and issuing handout tires at each event and are event and round labeled. Pretty neat idea. In the end it is all about the slow guy not feeling like the fast guy is so far out of reach that it will never be possible to compete, even if it realistically will never happen. Take away the hope, the "I almost had you" and racing is no longer fun.
I fall somewhere in the middle of this as I run on small to medium carpet tracks. I am not the fast guy. I don't run on large outdoor hard surface tracks that dictate a 17.5 or 13.5 so I can't speak to that. I love F1.
Modern RC F1 is not included in the ROAR rule set. They haven't adopted a rule set from UF1 or TCS or created their own. We are generally running gentlemen's agreement and using the ROAR equipment list with any F104 based rubber tires based on UF1 chassis rules here in the US. The current motor limit is 21.5 in those rules. Some tracks are running 25.5 to improve the quality of racing as the cars are more controllable. Some racers are finding this removes some of the challenge of running a motor that has slightly more power than the track can handle. Not ballistic fast, but proof of skill is the result. Lap times are showing that the motor change is not ruining the competition as the cars can develop only so much speed and traction on the rubber tires in most cases on small to medium sized indoor carpet tracks. The UK is running 21.5 and also allowing 13.5 1S cars with a 100g weight advantage and are finding the same sort of parity with rubber tires. They are using GRP premounts as a control tire with results similar to ours in the US. TCS is just starting F1 this year running 21.5 and issuing handout tires at each event and are event and round labeled. Pretty neat idea. In the end it is all about the slow guy not feeling like the fast guy is so far out of reach that it will never be possible to compete, even if it realistically will never happen. Take away the hope, the "I almost had you" and racing is no longer fun.
I fall somewhere in the middle of this as I run on small to medium carpet tracks. I am not the fast guy. I don't run on large outdoor hard surface tracks that dictate a 17.5 or 13.5 so I can't speak to that. I love F1.