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Old 03-25-2007, 04:53 AM   #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Warner
I've always wondered how well it would go over if Mark Martin, Dale Earnhardt or Jeff Gordon or any of the well known professional NASCAR stockcar drivers started going to one of their local tracks and tried driving sportsman cars instead of late model?

Bad example John.

Actually Stewart, Earnhardt, Schrader, Kahne and a few others do race a lot of short track events. The locals love it and the guy that beats them knows he has won by beating the best.

At CEFX Josh came out and ran 12th stock a few time, yes he kicked everyone's butt, nobody got mad and everyone knew where they ranked as far as performance. Bobby has done the same in 19t sedan at club races, he has to because there is almost never enough interest in running a Mod heat at a local level.
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Old 03-26-2007, 05:50 AM   #482
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Originally Posted by EddieO
Case in point too.....your own Donny Lia.....he just won nats with barely any sponsorship.....no motor tuner and a local shop that matched up a case of batteries....he took out drew ellis....FULL FACTORY FLYBOY.....BEATEN DEFEATED....

And the battery argument still makes no sense.....by planning out, that means you are not able to just TAP into that power at will.....so instead of just seeing who has he better motor, you have moved it to who has the better battery......not sure what got solved there.

Later EddieO
Donny doesn't have sponsorship because he doesn't need any. He's the sales manager for one of the biggest Honda dealerships in New York.

And it's not about who has the better battery, it's about who has the most efficent setup. You can have a 10Ah battery and still dump if you're not driving right.

10 years ago 1/12 was all modified and we had 1700mAh batteries and raced for 8 minutes. Now we have 4200mAh batteries and guys are having trouble making 6.

Nitro is a completely different animal because even with a box stock engine you have way more power than you need. On a couple occasions I've raced electric and nitro TC on the same track. With the electric you're between 3/4 and full throttle for 95% of the track. With the nitro car you're at full throttle for 2 seconds in the straight and that's it. In nitro it's much more about driving. BTW, I suck at both!
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Old 03-26-2007, 05:54 AM   #483
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A real problem is that electric on road has effectively zero growth. There aren't that many new people coming into the hobby.

The fastest growing on road electric class is Tamiya Mini.
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Old 03-26-2007, 07:04 AM   #484
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Default Wanna run stock and cry? Come to Horsham RC

I'm an electric TC noobie since I've only bee racing for 1.5 years now.
When I started racing I invested a lot of time in learning how to tune and tweak motor. Now I've gotten where I can build my own motors that run really well, I just need to work on my driving style for stock more.

I run stock in the winter at Horsham RC in Horsham, PA. (foam on carpet)
You wanna cry about factory guys in stock? Here is a sample of who we have there every Saturday running stock and/or 19T. (I dont like to name drop but I have to in this case)

Jeff Cuffs
Larry Fairtrace
Jason Schreffler
3-4 more otherTeam Xpress drivers
almost all of the Trinity team in the NorthEast
And a few other sponsored guys that will beat anyone above if they make a mistake.

I have a great place to watch some of the fastest stock guys in the country. I get to see what real fast looks like, and then try chase those lap times. I have a great crowd in the pits to ask questions about anything from setup to batteries to motors.

The newer/slower guys are just battling for the bottom of the B or C main usually. I'm not crying about not making the A, or even having a chance to make the A. When I work my way in the top of the B or the A there, I've earned it!
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Old 03-26-2007, 07:11 AM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afr0sch
I'm not crying about not making the A, or even having a chance to make the A. When I work my way in the top of the B or the A there, I've earned it!
Thats the best attitude to have

For people who can't get their head round why they can't always be in the A (by default) then go to a different club.... lol
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Old 03-26-2007, 09:13 AM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Jiml, I am talking both club and national....

Club races......if yer getting smoked by a br00d driver in stock......like I said, he is running mid grade packs at best along with a motor straight from the case. I can't speak for what the other companies do, but its certainly not a SINGLE one of my guys causing the problem......

I guess locally here, its different. We have multiple sponsored drivers in all classes and people just like to run with them. We have attendance problems not because of people being sponsored, but because of their being SO many classes.....and pissing and moaning about the dumbest things (track wars, onroad vs offroad, etc).....

Cherry is off in his dillusional world about stock being the for the beginners and nobody wanting to race against the sponsored guys and blah blah blah blah...

Well, I say look no further than gas.....they have no STOCK...sure they do sporstman classes at some races, but not very often and surely not at the CLUB level......they don't seem to have this problem. They don't whine against having to race against the sponsored guys.....you know, the ones with the special engines and special gas.....and all the free parts.

So while these sponsored guys get some free stuff and maybe a plane ticket to a national race.....they still SPEND money at the local level and I don't see how its right for us to tell these people how they have to spend their money.

Case in point too.....your own Donny Lia.....he just won nats with barely any sponsorship.....no motor tuner and a local shop that matched up a case of batteries....he took out drew ellis....FULL FACTORY FLYBOY.....BEATEN DEFEATED....

And the battery argument still makes no sense.....by planning out, that means you are not able to just TAP into that power at will.....so instead of just seeing who has he better motor, you have moved it to who has the better battery......not sure what got solved there.

Sorry, I just think you guys play to much into this.....Race and have fun....Cherry has been losing for 20 years....he still seems to enjoy himself.

Later EddieO
well he did have a motor tuner sal amato tt racing and as far as just a hobby shop matching batteries the guy doing it has 4 national titles from his former company not including donny winning
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Last edited by Warren Weaver; 03-26-2007 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:00 AM   #487
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Sal who?

And the battery guy may of won 4 national titles....at some point.....doesn't hide the fact that he matched up a case of cells....which means, the packs were nothing better than a customer could buy.....

The point being, Donny beat all these factory guys with little help......Sales manager at Honda or not (which actually furthers our point that you can buy the same stuff)....

Nitro holds the same barrier.....power level or not. Getting a gas engine to run right is HANDS DOWN harder than getting an electric motor to run right.... Your arguement is that these guys have more power cause they get tuned motors.....the same theory applies to gas. These guys have properly tuned engines that run correctly, don't flame out, and provide the proper power for the track....

I own a gas offroad track....trust me, the newbies NOTICE when they are getting blown away by a faster engine.....and they walk up to the counter and want to go that fast too.....and they struggle like mad trying to get it or just keep the thing running for a full tank....

Later EddieO
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:03 AM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team
Thats the best attitude to have

For people who can't get their head round why they can't always be in the A (by default) then go to a different club.... lol

...or go to a different hobby. And that's where the problem is. For a "racer" they don't mind spending time in the lower mains learning what to do to move up. But for the "hobbyist" they're just interested in driving their little car around. They don't care about making the A but when they see what it takes to be competitive just in stock, they go back in the shop and buy a helicopter.

This hobby was much more popular when you worked your way out of stock to run mod with "the big boys."
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:09 AM   #489
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as for sal you might not know him but is a great motor tuner and as for the batteries we dont match just one case when we do them and the matcher is me i have been in this hobby since the 80's and know all the tricks to matching batteries been there done that.
weavernator out
ps and as for the batteries being nothing better than a customer can buy sorry not true they are as good as your pro drivers get and probably better and the customer can purchase them from us
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Last edited by Warren Weaver; 03-26-2007 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:14 AM   #490
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...but tuning a gas engine is just knowing which screw to turn and which way. Yes that can be tricky, but you can get it with a little practice.

And if all stock motors are the same, why should I buy one from you???

Look the fast guys are always gonna be fast, I don't disagree with that. And I will always want to run with the fast guys. Our hobby needs a class for people just starting out where they don't get discouraged and quit. A long time ago stock was that class. Somewhere along the way we forgot that.
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:29 AM   #491
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electric touring car has not been growing because cheap hobby shop owners don't advertise their tucked away, badly located businesses with little exposure to the public. Also, the tracks have not kept control of the racing program and offered budget spec classes. Sponsored guys wont race in classes that they can't use their sponsored stuff. What kind of equipment or money advantage would Jeff Cuffs have with a mabuchi sealed stock motor and sealed stick pack batteries that get rotated between all the drivers in the class?

Quote:
But for the "hobbyist" they're just interested in driving their little car around. They don't care about making the A but when they see what it takes to be competitive just in stock, they go back in the shop and buy a helicopter.
That dosen't make sense for me, are they just intrested in driving their car around and not worried about making the "A", or are they intrested in being competitive and making the "A"?
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:35 AM   #492
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Not sure where I said all stock motors were the same, but OK....

And a gas engine is more than just turning a screw.....break in, porting, etc are all part of the process.....you should see what some of these guys do to their engines....

I dunno about the east coast.....but in the NW....stock was never the beginner class......it was just the slower class than modified. Often, many people raced both on club nights and big races....nobody cared, nobody said a word.....we just raced......then this touring car thing came around and suddenly stock is the new novice class....late this year will be my 20th year racing....

I'll go with scrubb on this one.....I think its a lack of promotion.....but I would not really blame the tracks, I think more the companies......the ones getting all wrapped up in the RTR market.......forgetting that racing helps those RTR sell and be profitable for the hobby shops....

Later EddieO
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:44 AM   #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml
No, compete! What good is it if you can get a great car, great radio, great batteries, great speed control, great charger only to find the fast guys are getting motors from some guy on the internet they know and you can't buy at a hobby shop. Even if you had the same skills as the pro you can't keep up. Why even bother racing? Sell the RC car crap and buy a helicopter!

The problem isn't as bad in 19 turn because you have more power. The more power you have the more it becomes about driving. From a fairness perspective modified is the better class. If the guy you're racing has a 10 turn, you can put in a 9 turn. You still may not beat him, but you can't blame it on not having the power.
I'm sorry but that is total BS. When you see a "Pro" driver that only races mod take the stock motor out of his lathe and beat everyone with it you can tell that IT IS NOT THE MOTOR!
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:45 AM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrubb
What kind of equipment or money advantage would Jeff Cuffs have with a mabuchi sealed stock motor and sealed stick pack batteries that get rotated between all the drivers in the class?
He would problably still win, he can wheel a car. And the same goes for all the rest of the fast stock racers; Drew, Goetz, Larry, Schreff, Craig, Travis, etc., etc. If you were to do the above at Snowbirds or IIC, the results would still be the same.

I agree with what afr0sch said. For all the people crying about the fast guys in stock at big races, try racing in ROAR Region 2 weekly. Almost any big race looks like the A at a national level event. This past weekend at Carpet Wars in MD, the last 3 Snowbirds champs were there. Racing with these guys week after week only makes you faster, but it also prepares you for the reality check at a big race. If you race with 10-15 of the fastest guys in the country weekly or bi-weekly, you should know there are at least 20-30 more out there that are just as fast or faster. So when you make the Z through D at a big race, consider it a learing experience, and practice up for the next time. Don't bitch about these guys running stock.
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:51 AM   #495
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