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Old 03-24-2007, 02:00 AM   #436
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so a fast mini driver should move up to.
i like running stock aand running 19t.
mod is just to much damm work today.
its not the speed,its the work you have to do to the motor.
hmmmm maybe brushless but we all know it makes your car way unbalanced unless you run a losi.
in 1/12 its hard to get the car balanced with brushless but not as bad.
then lipo with brushless in tc way out of wack but id like to see this in 1/12.
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Old 03-24-2007, 07:57 AM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flameoutgarrett
most of these races are handouts, you get what you get and you have to make it work.....19t is just as bad....

mod is a whole nother game....building mod motors at races will be the death of me... that is the hardest thing of all

I think I see a problem. You and Eddie are on one page, and I'm on another. You guys are talking about big races (ROAR nats, Snowbirds, IIC) and I'm talking about my local track. There's a big difference between the two.

Not everybody wants to go to "the big races." There are many who just want to go to the track and race with their buddies. They get a kick out of watching the fast guys, but they don't want to race them. They know what it will take to compete with those guys, and they just don't want the hassle. Why do we insist on slamming the door in these guys faces?

Now the local track could say stock is for beginners only, but what about the fast guy who's going to the nats to run stock? Do yo tell him sorry no? Not a good idea either.

This is a far more complex problem than just who should run stock. We need to get together on this, not just trade rhetoric.
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Old 03-24-2007, 08:13 AM   #438
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Originally Posted by EddieO
On a club level......motor is never a reason to blame losing to one of my sponsored guys....ask ANY of them.....they get RAW unbuilt straight from the case motors....no tests or inspections done.....I have sent guys stuff with loose winds or retarded timing on the comm.....we simply DON'T cherry pick the motors for our guys.......all the races we attend are pretty much always handouts....and when they are not (IIC or Novak).....ask ANYONE....I just have a flat of motors and we grab and build....if something is a dog, I grab another......

Customers are able to get rocket ships from us on a daily basis......each motor is built to order.....we dyno tune it....if it doesn't meet the base level I have set, it doesn't ship and we build another.......if it turns out to be a rocket ship on the dyno....it gets SENT to the customer....

The ONLY motor we have ever set aside was a binary quad mag stock that literally was off the charts and I felt something was wrong with it(this was when we were like 3 months old)......it was ran a year later by a local kid and was a dog on the track....my theory was correct....the motor sent to the customer instead was a rocket and it broke his track record.

I will gladly take a lie detector test about any of this.....and pass with flying colors....

And ANY hobby shop can stock my motors....or EA or Express or whoever.....just gotta take a minute and setup an account. If yer getting smoked by Joe Blow who is buying a motor off the net....well, tell your hobby shop owner to get some in.....plain and simple. He can either make money or lose money, his choice.

And the other comparisons don't work....19t is JUST as bad....only thing that helps is the bearings really remove one variable from the equation.....mod, well, that doesn't work anything.....sure I can slap in a wind lower, but then will I make runtime? so the batteries play in....

Later EddieO
Eddie, you're missing my point. Yes, give everyone the same exact motor and the fast guys will still be fast. I'm not arguing that.

I'm lucky to race at the track that our current ROAR 1/12 stock national champion runs at. I've been racing with Donny for a long time. I know full well I'll probably never beat him. But I don't mind running against these guys because I want to see how well I do against them. That and the only way to get faster is to race people faster than you. There simply is no doubt the fast guys have better motors. Not by much mind you, but by enough. I proved this beyond a doubt last week. I went through 3 qualifiers with my motor and someone else's motor that should have been faster. It wasn't. For the main I went to the local fast guy and asked if he had a motor I could borrow. First thing he asked me was "you think that's the problem?" I said yes. He lent me a motor he ran twice at a race a few weeks before, and had not rebuilt it since. I threw it in my car with no other setup changes. I was half a second a lap faster than I had run all day! Now while I still probably wouldn't have made the A, the motor made a huge difference.
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Old 03-24-2007, 08:21 AM   #439
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And I don't see how 19 turn is worse. Yes you still have the problem where one spec motor may be a little better than the other, but with a faster motor driving skill becomes more important.

And yes, you can put in a low turn motor, but then you have to worry about run time. In other words, race strategy comes into play. You could gear way up, but you risk dumping. Or gear down a little and stop trying to travel back in time every time you get to the straight.

Now before you go bashing me, think about that for a second. Racing where you have to plan out what you're going to do in a race, not just see who has the better motor.

Which sounds better?
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:19 AM   #440
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JimL
Been racing for 20 year`s ...
For the last two I have never enter one stock class ...
Why ?
Because the tuner`s enter with their hand-pick special`s with the best of battery`s .....

Its not stock anymore , its a tuner war`s now and the only racer`s winning stock now days are the tuner`s...


Sad ......

New racer`s have to race these same racer`s and they don`t even try when they find out
what is involved to win ..

This alone is hurting this sport , the bread and butter for the race facility`s are not playing by Roar rules today ...


They are buying brushless and LI-PO unstead .......

and

experience racer`s like myself ?

Run mod with no incentive to play the tuner game in the stock class`s...


If you really wish to see the stock program advance and stay a popular program , you will have to give stock back to average un-sponsored racer again .....

or just watch a whole new class take over with time ....

which will be the 13.5 class !
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:50 AM   #441
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Jiml, I am talking both club and national....

Club races......if yer getting smoked by a br00d driver in stock......like I said, he is running mid grade packs at best along with a motor straight from the case. I can't speak for what the other companies do, but its certainly not a SINGLE one of my guys causing the problem......

I guess locally here, its different. We have multiple sponsored drivers in all classes and people just like to run with them. We have attendance problems not because of people being sponsored, but because of their being SO many classes.....and pissing and moaning about the dumbest things (track wars, onroad vs offroad, etc).....

Cherry is off in his dillusional world about stock being the for the beginners and nobody wanting to race against the sponsored guys and blah blah blah blah...

Well, I say look no further than gas.....they have no STOCK...sure they do sporstman classes at some races, but not very often and surely not at the CLUB level......they don't seem to have this problem. They don't whine against having to race against the sponsored guys.....you know, the ones with the special engines and special gas.....and all the free parts.

So while these sponsored guys get some free stuff and maybe a plane ticket to a national race.....they still SPEND money at the local level and I don't see how its right for us to tell these people how they have to spend their money.

Case in point too.....your own Donny Lia.....he just won nats with barely any sponsorship.....no motor tuner and a local shop that matched up a case of batteries....he took out drew ellis....FULL FACTORY FLYBOY.....BEATEN DEFEATED....

And the battery argument still makes no sense.....by planning out, that means you are not able to just TAP into that power at will.....so instead of just seeing who has he better motor, you have moved it to who has the better battery......not sure what got solved there.

Sorry, I just think you guys play to much into this.....Race and have fun....Cherry has been losing for 20 years....he still seems to enjoy himself.

Later EddieO
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:55 AM   #442
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And jim....we can take care your motor and battery problem...


www.teambrood.com


And tell your local shop to buy some too.....we can make everyone fast:P

Later EddieO
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:02 AM   #443
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How are people going to improve if they dont have anyone to improve against? Someone not racing because they know they cant win is the stupidest thing ive heard in my life. I think it proves that said person is in the hobby for the wrong reasons.

Winning a roar nats against some nobody in stock is nowhere near as prestegious as winning or even making the A against guys such as ellis, schreven, ea, herman, goetz, etc. It is possible, people just dont feel like putting in the time and effort anymore i guess.
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:10 AM   #444
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I love these stock thread.They are some good reading.There are many good points on both sides.It's def a tough situation in deed that needs to be handled by the individuals themselves. I agree that some need to get the hell out F out of stock..lol..Its doesnt even have anything to do with the equipment they are using or what car they drive.....The drivers themselves need to make that decision on there own. If someone has been winning multiple stock events for 2+ years then YES it is time to move the hell out of stock. First stepping into the 19 turn ranks, followed by full blown mod.
Personally I enjoy going and running some 19 turn at a few races because it is fun, not because I know I have a good shot at winning. So I am guilty of some sandbagging myself I guess. On the other side however some people are just not cut out for mod and probably never will be. I am a bit bias on the discussion of moving out of stock. My goal throughout my racing career is/was always to beat the best drivers out there..Not to rise to the stock ranks and park myself at the top of them. I always viewed stock as a stepping stone to the next level....Apprently others do as well because I have never seen anyone run stock at the World Championships....
Move up!!!!I would rather be finishing Top 13 in Mod then Top 3 in stock for 4 years. I give alot more respect to those who step up and struggle it out for a bit then those who never attempt it at all.....
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:13 AM   #445
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Around here attendance is an economic issue as well as to many classes. If two many classes are an issue why not narrow it down. I'm not a fast guy by any means, and I have no dillusions of beating the local pros. On the other hand I am competive with most of the other racers at my track and set my goal on getting better than them, once I do that then I go for the faster guys, and so on and so on. Maybe thats what poeple should be shooting for instead of I've got to beat the top driver right away. And yes, most importantly, you've got to keep it fun, especially onthe club level.
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:20 AM   #446
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Bah mcmoney...

I am out of 1/12th stock drivers.....and I need to win....wanna run stock for me and I will pay your airfare, entry fees, and hotel?

I know what yer thinking.....where do I sign up:P

Later EddieO
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:36 AM   #447
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Eddie you are so wrong , your interest is just in having Team brood dominate the stock class`s so your products look good ....
At the cost ..
Of a once popular stock program ......


I told it straight ..
No longer race stock ...
never will again either until it becomes a fair race again....

which means .,.
No sponsored racer`s allowed ..
and

A improved stock motor that nobody can "tune" for the advantage...
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:50 AM   #448
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Yeah, I don't have any good mod drivers....so I just dominate stock.....funny. My first ever national win was in modified....

I helped a couple of local guys go to the national level and race.....and they did well.....yup, thats it.

I, like any other company......try to do well at the big races....in ALL classes. Some only try to win stock, some only mod.....I try to win it all.

And cherry, there is no such thing as a non-tuneable motor....even your mighty brushless can be tuned, yer just too stupid to do it....

And factory drivers in STOCK has been going on LONG before br00d was even a company, so don't lay the blame on me....

Like I said, explain why the gas program, even with all its sponsored guys.....doesn't have this problem? Please tell me....enlighten me. And don't try to tell me cause the engines are equal.....cause they are not, they are HIGHLY tuneable and tweakable......and their gas, well good luck getting the same gas at a national that the sponsored guys are running...

And yes, I am aware of the sportsman class they do at some big events.....which is FULL of sponsored guys also....

Just nobody seems to complain.....must be the nitro fumes.


Later EddieO
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:50 AM   #449
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Hahaha...Have a good weekend bud...
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:53 AM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Yeah, I don't have any good mod drivers....so I just dominate stock.....funny. My first ever national win was in modified....

I helped a couple of local guys go to the national level and race.....and they did well.....yup, thats it.

I, like any other company......try to do well at the big races....in ALL classes. Some only try to win stock, some only mod.....I try to win it all.

And cherry, there is no such thing as a non-tuneable motor....even your mighty brushless can be tuned, yer just too stupid to do it....

And factory drivers in STOCK has been going on LONG before br00d was even a company, so don't lay the blame on me....

Like I said, explain why the gas program, even with all its sponsored guys.....doesn't have this problem? Please tell me....enlighten me. And don't try to tell me cause the engines are equal.....cause they are not, they are HIGHLY tuneable and tweakable......and their gas, well good luck getting the same gas at a national that the sponsored guys are running...

And yes, I am aware of the sportsman class they do at some big events.....which is FULL of sponsored guys also....

Just nobody seems to complain.....must be the nitro fumes.


Later EddieO
Fact :
Eddie you can`t "tune" a brushless, nor any of your driver`s or employees....
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