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Old 03-23-2007, 02:47 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by jiml
I know many people who won't race because they know they have no chance.
No chance to what? Win?

That is the very attitude that is wrong with RC racing today. The thought that you HAVE TO WIN in order to enjoy yourself at the races.

Let's just dumb everything down and give a trophy to everyone so that no one's "Machismo" is offended....

10 place in the ZZZZZZ Main! Here is your trophy sir! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

BLARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!
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Old 03-23-2007, 03:02 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by jiml
How?

Two things about a pro level driver. First, he has much better driving skills, that's a given. But second, he also knows exactly what to do to get the most performance out of a stock motor.

.
shame on them!!
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Old 03-23-2007, 03:20 PM   #423
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Just run the class you like and thats it.
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Old 03-23-2007, 04:08 PM   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml
How?

Two things about a pro level driver. First, he has much better driving skills, that's a given. But second, he also knows exactly what to do to get the most performance out of a stock motor. The average racer doesn't know and doesn't want to bother with springs, brushes, whatever. Most people who buy brushless motors are tired of cutting comms every run. You go out on the track with a pro guy and it's obvious he's got 2000 more RPM than you do, what hope do you have of even competing with him.

Not to mention that totally destroys the concept of everyone running with the same power!

.

as a person that goes to the big races to build motors for the "pro's" i can tell you that most of them dont know how to tune a fast stock motor....thats why myself and other motor guys are there....

in the past year i have built a motor for pretty much anyone that has asked. thats why im there...but no one takes me up on it, motor is a big part of winning....what makes a fast motor is the right gearing...and the right driver.

i race at the "big" races, and i get killed...but im havin fun, if i keep going and practicing sooner or later im bound to make the main....and its making me faster.
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Old 03-23-2007, 05:52 PM   #425
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when the pros get out of college sports, the pros will get out of stock RC... oh wait there aren't any pros in college... now that's BS
if you make the pros get out of stock and IF you could POLICE IT the stuff they get will just become gifts instead of being a "sponsored" stock driver. and that would be like me giving up on paragon... but I'll save that for another thread.
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Old 03-23-2007, 06:01 PM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flameoutgarrett
as a person that goes to the big races to build motors for the "pro's" i can tell you that most of them dont know how to tune a fast stock motor....thats why myself and other motor guys are there....

in the past year i have built a motor for pretty much anyone that has asked. thats why im there...but no one takes me up on it, motor is a big part of winning....what makes a fast motor is the right gearing...and the right driver.

i race at the "big" races, and i get killed...but im havin fun, if i keep going and practicing sooner or later im bound to make the main....and its making me faster.
I'm curious? How do you feel about tuning a brushless motor?
I say if you buy a 4300 and try to tune it to go faster, then buy a 5800 and run a faster class.
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Old 03-23-2007, 06:16 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UN4RACING
I'm curious? How do you feel about tuning a brushless motor?
I say if you buy a 4300 and try to tune it to go faster, then buy a 5800 and run a faster class.

well....there wont be any tuning involved....but brushless motors are like batteries.....some are better than others....and it will be my job to find the good ones.
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Old 03-23-2007, 06:28 PM   #428
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hmm....do away with stock? Alright. Assume we do. Next we'll have to do away with 19t cause all the pros will know all the tricks to make them fast. So we'll all end up in Mod and we'll all get our rears handed to us and never have a class to get better in.

I run stock in our regional race series. At the start of the season I won the D main in stock. At the end I came in last in the A main. Am I upset? HELL NO! I improved! I also picked up a 19t and started racing in that class. How am I going to know if I'm getting better if all the ace racers leave the class? So I'm the best of the newbie racers. Awesome. Now I'll go onto 19t thinking I have good driving skills and get punted around the track for 5 minutes.

Leave stock alone, leave the pros alone. Once you beat one of them it won't seem like such a daunting task anymore. How do we improve if all our challenges move on to another class?
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Old 03-23-2007, 06:34 PM   #429
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I dunno about no tuning......we will see. I think as the software and such becomes more advanced in the speed controls, you will see a bunch of the tuning going on there, with guys like me or garrett figuring out perfect profiles for each motor, which will vary.....

I will give brushless the lower cost theory.....but the we will all be in the same boat is a load of crap.....both on the tuning side and the side that they are all equal....they are not....just like batteries like garrett said.

I have been racing for 20 years almost.......I have no tumors from traction compound and I am not the best driver......but I still race stock....it's the speed I like to go and enjoy myself.......and while I am not sponsored in theory.....I still get a lot of stuff for free and have the best of everything......so do I have to race modified?

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Old 03-23-2007, 07:39 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flameoutgarrett
well....there wont be any tuning involved....but brushless motors are like batteries.....some are better than others....and it will be my job to find the good ones.
Good point. Speaking strictly stock:
Would you say that to be part reason why I would not want to run against a sponsored factory racer.
And what would you do with the considered bad ones?
I mean even if I could out drive a sponsored driver, he would have the motor on me.
Unless by shear luck the one motor I own was better?
I'm not trying to put you on the spot just trying to determine if factory drivers should be in stock?
I guess I would have to buy more than 1?
I don't get to go to big race's, just trying to decide if I would?
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Old 03-23-2007, 07:50 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by Advil
No chance to what? Win?
No, compete! What good is it if you can get a great car, great radio, great batteries, great speed control, great charger only to find the fast guys are getting motors from some guy on the internet they know and you can't buy at a hobby shop. Even if you had the same skills as the pro you can't keep up. Why even bother racing? Sell the RC car crap and buy a helicopter!

The problem isn't as bad in 19 turn because you have more power. The more power you have the more it becomes about driving. From a fairness perspective modified is the better class. If the guy you're racing has a 10 turn, you can put in a 9 turn. You still may not beat him, but you can't blame it on not having the power.
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Old 03-23-2007, 07:53 PM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UN4RACING
Good point. Speaking strictly stock:
Would you say that to be part reason why I would not want to run against a sponsored factory racer.
And what would you do with the considered bad ones?
I mean even if I could out drive a sponsored driver, he would have the motor on me.
Unless by shear luck the one motor I own was better?
I'm not trying to put you on the spot just trying to determine if factory drivers should be in stock?
I guess I would have to buy more than 1?
I don't get to go to big race's, just trying to decide if I would?
you can run at a club level and run in the top 5 of the drivers there, but i have seen the people that have been in the d main at the bigger races....then what do you know, a year later...most of them are now making the show. if you race against the pros you will be running with them...(if you put the time and effort that it takes to make it to there level), there is only a couple "pro" stock guys that dont practice, travis being one of them....

but a majority of the fast stock guys were in the same boat as most others, in the lower mains, not diggin the factory guys...then they put the time and effort into it and now they are the fast guys...


on the brushless thing....buy your brushless from a tuner (like brood or ea) and know that they have been tested and arent the "duds" we will sell the slower ones...at a lower price and the faster ones at a slightly higher price...

like i said, just like battery volts. anyone can buy whta the top guys are using right off the shelf.
the advantage of having a motor guy (me) is that every batch of brushes i get in here i take a handfull....and take the best ones to races. but like i said before, if you go to a big race ask where garrett is at and i will gladly tune your motor to be as fast as everyone else's
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Old 03-23-2007, 07:56 PM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml
No, compete! What good is it if you can get a great car, great radio, great batteries, great speed control, great charger only to find the fast guys are getting motors from some guy on the internet they know and you can't buy at a hobby shop. Even if you had the same skills as the pro you can't keep up. Why even bother racing? Sell the RC car crap and buy a helicopter!

The problem isn't as bad in 19 turn because you have more power. The more power you have the more it becomes about driving. From a fairness perspective modified is the better class. If the guy you're racing has a 10 turn, you can put in a 9 turn. You still may not beat him, but you can't blame it on not having the power.
most of these races are handouts, you get what you get and you have to make it work.....19t is just as bad....

mod is a whole nother game....building mod motors at races will be the death of me... that is the hardest thing of all
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Old 03-23-2007, 08:30 PM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flameoutgarrett
you can run at a club level and run in the top 5 of the drivers there, but i have seen the people that have been in the d main at the bigger races....then what do you know, a year later...most of them are now making the show. if you race against the pros you will be running with them...(if you put the time and effort that it takes to make it to there level), there is only a couple "pro" stock guys that dont practice, travis being one of them....

but a majority of the fast stock guys were in the same boat as most others, in the lower mains, not diggin the factory guys...then they put the time and effort into it and now they are the fast guys...


on the brushless thing....buy your brushless from a tuner (like brood or ea) and know that they have been tested and arent the "duds" we will sell the slower ones...at a lower price and the faster ones at a slightly higher price...

like i said, just like battery volts. anyone can buy whta the top guys are using right off the shelf.
the advantage of having a motor guy (me) is that every batch of brushes i get in here i take a handfull....and take the best ones to races. but like i said before, if you go to a big race ask where garrett is at and i will gladly tune your motor to be as fast as everyone else's
Thanks for the insight. I'm not that ambitious to be sponsored.
It would be fun, and thanks for the offer. If I ever make it to the big show I'll look you up. Just to say HI though cause I'll be running brushless.
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Old 03-23-2007, 11:18 PM   #435
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On a club level......motor is never a reason to blame losing to one of my sponsored guys....ask ANY of them.....they get RAW unbuilt straight from the case motors....no tests or inspections done.....I have sent guys stuff with loose winds or retarded timing on the comm.....we simply DON'T cherry pick the motors for our guys.......all the races we attend are pretty much always handouts....and when they are not (IIC or Novak).....ask ANYONE....I just have a flat of motors and we grab and build....if something is a dog, I grab another......

Customers are able to get rocket ships from us on a daily basis......each motor is built to order.....we dyno tune it....if it doesn't meet the base level I have set, it doesn't ship and we build another.......if it turns out to be a rocket ship on the dyno....it gets SENT to the customer....

The ONLY motor we have ever set aside was a binary quad mag stock that literally was off the charts and I felt something was wrong with it(this was when we were like 3 months old)......it was ran a year later by a local kid and was a dog on the track....my theory was correct....the motor sent to the customer instead was a rocket and it broke his track record.

I will gladly take a lie detector test about any of this.....and pass with flying colors....

And ANY hobby shop can stock my motors....or EA or Express or whoever.....just gotta take a minute and setup an account. If yer getting smoked by Joe Blow who is buying a motor off the net....well, tell your hobby shop owner to get some in.....plain and simple. He can either make money or lose money, his choice.

And the other comparisons don't work....19t is JUST as bad....only thing that helps is the bearings really remove one variable from the equation.....mod, well, that doesn't work anything.....sure I can slap in a wind lower, but then will I make runtime? so the batteries play in....

Later EddieO
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